Transcript 0:00 Hey, everybody. Welcome to Adam Blake. That's me, and this is my new PNEU podcast. 0:08 Uh, today, uh, I'm super excited because I get to sit down with a longtime friend, uh, who I met through other people, that I've developed more and more of a friendship, that I rely on for advice in the bike industry, um, who has fulfilled a lot of roles in the bike industry. 0:29 Uh, a guy that, if I recall, um, and I'm pretty sure I do, uh, I quit drinking about six years ago. One of the first people to actually reach out to me in some form or fashion, uh, which I've always treasured. 0:42 Gomez, who's sitting next to us too, one of the other ones. I'm not supposed to tell you he's here. [laughs] Um, but he is. Um, the current vice president of all Quality Bicycle Products brands, uh, Jason Boucha, 0:59 one of the people that I admire most in the, in the bike industry, to be honest. Jason, thank you so much for sitting down at this table with me. It's awesome to see you, buddy. 1:07 Yeah, man, it is really awesome to see you. You know, I didn't get out to Frostbike this year. That's usually like our at least... Seems like we had two meetups a year, you know- Yeah... 1:14 SaddleRidin', Frostbike, and, and just with some shop limitations, I couldn't get out there this year. 1:19 Uh, so I, I really am, am very thankful that I get this opportunity to sit down and talk to you and, and just see you and give you a big hug and stuff. Um- You skipped my birthday party too, though. I... Dude. 1:31 [laughs] Time, right? Time, time, time. Uh, I will come on one of those at some point. All right. It was Arkansas this year. Would've been a good time, 'cause I love the crew you run with too, right? 1:41 A lot of similar people. Yeah. Follers and Wintles and, and that kind of crew. Um, so let's start with a little bit of history, um, and you're gonna have to fill in some blanks before I really knew you. 1:54 Um, history with Q, very tenured. Uh, we were talking the other day, 24 years at Quality Bicycle Products in very ro- various roles. Yeah, it's 23 or 24. 23, 24. That's a good long time, right? Um, just walk us through, 2:12 you know, did you... What was the trajectory? Did you start in a bike shop, and then you get this and this opportunity and this opportunity? Pretty instrumental in, 2:21 uh, establishing the Adventure By Bike, uh, mentality of Salsa, which we had a luxury to sit down with some of those folks. 2:27 So maybe sit down on some of those too and, and just explain your roles if you feel like you want to. There's a lot of them, Adam. I know, man. I appreciate it. Um- You're wise. 2:38 Well, I think the key thing, I started just like you, bike shops. Like, I love bikes, uh, had to pay for college. Mm-hmm. 2:46 Uh, I started hanging out at Freewheel Bike, uh, working on my own in the public workshop, and I would go there, it was like $5 an hour to clean and work on my own bike, and eventually they're like, "Uh, hey kid, you're here a lot. 2:59 Why don't you just work here?" 3:01 And, uh, I went in on the weekends and just helped people fix their bikes in the workshop, and eventually just worked my way up through there, and racing bikes around the Midwest and meeting people. 3:14 Um, but I just, I loved the bike shop scene. I loved the people. And, uh, it just kept me in it. Um, then I think the significant thing is I went on a bike tour. I flew to Alaska, and I rode to Moab, Utah- Okay... 3:30 when I graduated from college, and, uh, that just changed my life. Sure. I was like, "This is what I wanna do." And so I came home, told my parents I wasn't gonna go into my career. That was awesome. 3:42 [laughs] Five and a half years of college [laughs] and, uh, pursue something and, uh, I landed at QBP kind of by accident, and my friend was offered a job and he was moving to China, is the story, to teach English with his wife. 3:58 And he, uh, he, he called me. He's like, "You gotta call this guy. They offered me a job. I can't take it 'cause I'm going to China." And I called them, and they said, "Yeah, uh, come on in tomorrow, Jason. 4:09 Uh, drop your resume off." And I drop it off, and the guy that I was with at the time didn't show up for work that day. I ended up in Steve Legg's office. Hey. You know? And, uh- That's a step up right off the bat, huh? 4:23 Yeah. [laughs] And, uh, the owner of, uh, QBP and a, a great mentor for me, but I think our industry. Oh, yes. [laughs] And- Very influential... he handed-- He's like, "I didn't even know we were hiring." 4:35 And I'm like, "I was just dropping my resume off." And he said, "Oh, here's a test. Take a test, a purchasing test, and talk about this." And, and, uh, they called me back and just said, you know, "Hey, 4:47 you can start in the spring." And I just said, "I'll never leave my bike shop in the spring." Yeah, right. Like, "Talk to you in the fall." And then the guy called back and said, "Can you start Monday?" You know? 4:57 [laughs] All right. Playing hardball. Well, no, I wasn't gonna... I mean, you know what it's like in a bike shop, man. I totally understand, right. Yeah, you're not leaving, bailing. Man. Right. 5:05 Blue skies three days in a row and your repair schedule's two weeks out. Right. And I can't do it to my friends. Right. And so I just told them no. And, uh, they called me back, and they said, "Well, how about Monday?" 5:16 And I said, "Well, how about in two weeks after I go to Moab-" [laughs] "... and ride my bike for 10 days?" And they said, "That's great." And I started and I haven't looked back. 5:24 What was your initial role at Quality Bicycle Products? Customer service. Customers... Inside sales? Every single person- Or inside customer service? Yep, inside customer service. 5:32 Uh, at the time, we were much smaller than now. Sure. Um, I think my employee number was 79. Yeah. It didn't mean we had 79 employees. It means I was like the 79th hired. Right. 5:42 [laughs] And, uh, we all answered phone calls, um, if you worked sort of in the front office and did operational work, faxes, if you remember those, 5:54 um, phone calls, customer service, uh, purchasing, um, and I just sort of worked my way up through our, our system. Mm-hmm. 6:03 Uh, but I've always been a product guy, so any opportunity I had, II moved towards purchasing and our, uh, and product management and, uh, our distribution, and I'm... At one point, I bought most of our mountain product. 6:16 Mm-hmm. Uh, RockShox, Hayes, Marzocchi, um, MRP, Evil, like going down the line, I, I bought most of those products for distribution. And at that time, that means I was doing the catalog work, 6:30 um, doing, you know, uh, all the database work, pricing, partner creation for the brands that you represent, so we did everything. Right. So like I was the window for Dave Weagle at Eagle Bikes for QBP, you know? Right. 6:44 And, uh, so we did a lot, and I just sort of worked my way up through that doing purchasing. I bought Shimano product with our, our now president, Rich Tower. Um, I worked for him as an assistant. 6:56 I bought Campy as an assistant, and then eventually took over large segments of purchasing and, and just started solving problems that we had and just saying, "I, I'll go figure that out." Right. 7:08 And it's been good to me. Kind of like all hands on deck at that time, huh? We all were. You just did as much as you could- I mean-... to make it succeed. 7:14 Yeah, I mean, Steve, the founder of QBP, is an entrepreneur, so- Right... you know, if you have an idea and it has a value somewhere- He'll listen... why don't you do it? Right. And sure, I'll let you run with that. 7:25 I mean, you talked about Salsa and Adventure By Bike at one point. I mean, it... 7:31 And he would admit this and, and, uh, I'm like, "Steve, this is what I wanna do," uh, when I was the brand manager for Salsa Bikes, and he's like, "Yeah, this adventure thing, you're talking about it a lot. 7:42 I don't know if it's gonna work, but you have passion, so why don't you go do it?" Steve's kind of a visionary in a way, isn't he? Oh, I... We used to joke, we have a joke where it's like I bet you a Coke. 7:54 Nothing serious. Right. Right. That's the purpose. I think in my 24 years I've gotten two Cokes back from him. [laughs] Yeah. Right. Uh, pretty smart, a real visionary, um, you know, but really can just see it, you know? 8:11 We were joking in between calls here, you were talking about the Bucksaw- Mm... with the Salsa crew. Mm-hmm. When I worked at Salsa, we brought that into the leadership team meeting, this aluminum prototype fat bike. 8:21 We just thought we were like, "This is amazing." And he looks and he's like, "Why aren't you doing it in carbon?" [laughs] Literally, like- Yeah... seriously rained on my parade, dude. Right. Yeah. 8:33 [laughs] Like [laughs] Yeah, didn't know that was an option. And literally three days later w- we had P. Koski working on the carbon one. Yeah. And he never asked me how much tooling was, he never asked me how much time. 8:45 He just said, "Why aren't you doing it? And you need to do this." Right. And I was like, "Yes, we do." [laughs] I agree. Yeah. [laughs] Right. Total- And, and three days later, Koski was working on it. That's awesome. 8:54 And that's the environment he's created, um, and when we're a little bigger, there's a little more process now. Sure. 8:59 Um, a little more justification of large resources and, and capital investments, but, uh, that's the environment. Right, and that should be assumed, right? Yeah. You know, as you get bigger processes- Yeah... 9:11 add more value- Yeah... and, and reliability for all involved- Yeah... and things. Still the same spirit, just takes more time now. Yep. Yeah. Yep. I, uh, actually s- uh, of QBP, I purchased in 2000 and... 2000. 9:26 In 2000, I purchased a non-priced QBP physical catalog. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was just getting in the bike industry as, like, a duster, tire inflator, sweeper kinda guy- Mm-hmm... 9:41 uh, that transitioned into assembly and, and from then on. Uh, but I remember buying that and just, like, reading it- Yeah... over and over. Like, I think I wore... 9:52 That catalog was not the size it is now, obviously, but it was probably still 300 pages, you know? 300, 400 pages, yeah. And I think I wore the- Yeah... spine of that catalog out- Yeah... 10:03 from just, uh, just trying to accumulate this knowledge base- Yeah... and awareness because, you know, if you don't know, you don't know, right? Uh, why would you, you know? 10:13 You don't know how many different forks exist and how many different chains exist, you know? Yeah. You just think, "I need a bicycle chain," maybe if you're on the far outskirts, you know? 10:23 So that was, like, the, the most enlightening thing, and even from then in 2000, I believe it was 2000, there was, like, anecdotal, like, pictures of employees in fun poses- Mm-hmm... 10:36 or with products they liked, and right from getting that, I was like, "You know, I kinda like this Quality Bicycle Products- Mm-hmm... uh, thing. I'm not even really sure what it is." 10:46 You know, I hadn't been to a frost bike or anything like that. Eh, but I kinda like this. 10:51 I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep kinda making sure we're ordering and, and seeing what I can get from them and, and seeing what knowledge they can pass on to me. It was r- a really impactful situation that I remember. Um, 11:05 you know, still leads the way a- as far as, like, distribution online catalogs for me- Mm-hmm... as a resource. Q is... I mean, it's not even competition, you know? 11:14 Like, w- whenever I have another distributor contact me and be like, "What should we do to our online, uh, distribution webpage?" And I was like, "Go to qbp.com and do everything they do because it's the best." 11:26 [laughs] You know- Yeah... search filters, all that stuff, and that kinda goes in the back end, but you talked about being involved with Salsa. Uh, in another podcast, we established my affinity for Salsa. Yeah. Um, 11:38 you, you really helped the trajectory of that, um- I remember. I do too, and we're gonna talk about a, uh, pretty in specific. Uh, when did you start with Salsa? I- Hard to say because of very, like, varied roles? Yeah. 11:54 2007, 6? Sure. Something in there? Sure. Let's say that. [laughs] It... Hard to say. It is. Um, so we were both at the Dirty Kanza, uh, gravel race 2010.Uh, 12:10 you tell the story that I was laying in a, in a road. It was a very, very hot day in Kansas. It was a brutal- Over 100, over 100 degrees. It was. Yeah, I don't think that's an exaggeration. No. 12:21 Um, and back then, no support, so you were kinda scrapping for food and fuel. Yeah, I s- I remember- We- we're on pretty remedial bikes. 12:29 Yeah, I r- I mean, I remember starting, I had probably six peanut butter sandwiches- Yeah... in my pack. I carried all my food supplements. Um, and we re- f- you know, we replenished at gas stations- Yep... 12:41 'cause we shared some time there. But you were kind of at the whim- Yeah... of what was available at the gas station- Yep... too, after... 12:47 You know, that year I think there was 200 competitors at it, but enough that, 'cause it was only the 200 at that point, enough that if you were towards the not front, uh, m- it might not be so much in a, a- an Alma Township gas station- [laughs]... 13:03 let's just say, right? It's not the, it's not the Quick Star right outside here that's got tons and tons- Mm-hmm... of food, and this and that. It was kinda rough at times. Uh, I was telling the story of Salsa. 13:14 I carried, carried five tubes. Mm-hmm. I also installed five tubes that day. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Like, rough goes, those were. So you tell the story 13:25 that I was catching some cool down in the middle of a gr- [laughs] gravel road with no shade anywhere. It's desolate out there. I wanna say, well, I think you were riding your single speed Erickson that year. 13:37 Single speed Erickson, for sure. And beautiful bike. Yeah. Think you had a blue jersey on. I can't even remember what I... I, you had a- Maybe an Erickson blue jersey maybe, yeah. 13:45 You had a blue jersey on, I'll tell you- Yeah... uh, from my pictures. Oh, yeah. [laughs] And, uh, I don't know. 13:53 I- if any of you have ridden gravel roads and gravel races, you know there are times you feel better than someone, and times you feel worse, and, uh, we saw each other a bunch that day. I was on a prototype Ti Fargo. 14:05 Yep. Um- Bike with no name... it was the bike with no name. I wanna talk about that more, too. Okay. In- Uh-... in a bit. Bike with no name, and I come up somewhere probably between mile 115 and 130, 14:21 and Adam's laying in the middle of the road. Yeah, it's fun. I'm like, "You okay, dude?" "Oh, yeah. [laughs] I'm good. Just cooling off" I mean... Baking in the sun. 14:32 [laughs] Baking in the sun because there's no way that gravel was cool. But you finished, you finished well. Yeah, I f- Yeah... I actually ended up finishing third single speed that year. Yeah. 14:42 Um, I had some luxuries with some people that, you know, I remember specifically the third checkpoint. Uh- Yeah... I was ready to quit. Yeah. I was at a maybe 140, and then we got to Alma- Alma... at 165. 14:57 It was roughly about 165. Something like that. Yeah, well, at, at previous, Cottonwood Falls maybe, um, 15:04 I roll in and I'm like, "Man, I am, like, toast" And Jim Cummins is standing there k- and he's like, "First place single speed" And I was like- Oh, damn... "Damn it." Can- Like, I cannot quit at this point. Yeah. 15:14 You know? So I go into the gas station, it is a killing field. I mean, people are s- Do you remember what happened in the gas station? 15:20 People are throwing up, people are- Yeah, it was the motorcycle driver, the KLR dude that was out on course. Yeah. He- He destroyed- Yeah... his bikes. People are, like, cramping. Yeah. Like, full body cramping. 15:33 You know, like, standing in the coolers. Yeah. Not buying anything, just sitting there. [laughs] But, like, it was a killing field. 15:39 It was really nasty, and a- anyways, uh, hooked up with the second place single speed rider and we made a pact to ride together at least to Alma, and then we'd duke it out if we wanted. Did Scott win that year? 15:50 Bigelow, right? Is that the last name? Scott Bigelow or... Yeah, Scott is the name, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I know. And we had yo-yo'd all day- Yeah... so we were very aware of each other. 15:58 Um, well, I get to Alma and, uh, MG, Matt Gersib, and Aaron Gamel are there. Yep. 16:03 Both Lincoln riders, and Gamel's like, "Hey, you want a popsicle" And I was like, "Oh, yeah" [laughs] And I remember just putting the popsicle on my face. 16:11 Not in my mouth, just, like, on my face laying on the concrete hoping for the best, you know? Um, and, and Gamel kinda ushered me at least to mile 180 or something. Mm-hmm. I kinda cramped and, and... 16:23 But he was the first one I saw at the finish line. Um, but based on that, because y- back then, not as many events. Mm-mm. Even less people interested in those events at the time. 16:37 You were really searching out to find the ultra type stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, I had connected with Gersib, who at the time was a Salsa sponsored rider. Mm-hmm. You, Tim Mack, Joe Miser, and Matt. Um, and, and I start... 16:53 Matt a- and I kinda made it a six hour mountain bike race or something where we duked it out for a little while, and it was really good. Um, he, he starts talking to me about 17:03 titanium and this Ti La Cruz that is coming out, which was a pretty forward thinking model at the time. Mm-hmm. Had reasonable tire clearance, was a very reasonable weight, uh, with the implementation of Ti. 17:19 Um, and, and I'm like, "Dang, I, like, I would love to get on that" Mm-hmm. My Erickson was single speed specific, no cable bosses or anything. Mm-hmm. And it was just a mountain bike, too, so I wanted drop bar. Yeah. 17:31 Hand positions, all this stuff. Um, so he s- either he contacted you or he- He called me. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get in contact, and I, [laughs] 17:42 I don't remember all the conversations, but I do distinctly remember once we had ironed out the details, you were vehement, "This is not sponsorship. This is not a sponsorship deal. 17:57 This is, no way implies that we are sponsoring you." [laughs] Like, and I'm like, "Yeah, I, whatever, man. All good, Jason. Like, I'm cool with anything. I just wanna ride this bike." 18:09 [laughs] But-The, the La Cruz Ti really opened up my eyes to a lot of things, you know, that, that Salsa continued to progress with, the Warbird, n- uh, and Fargo and Cutthroat and, and these kind of, you know, more tailored gravel offerings. 18:26 Yeah. Um, how did you, how did you infiltrate that, uh, that community? You know, I knew Ecky through NUE series stuff- Mm-hmm... with, uh, Buffington- Yep... and Charlie Farrow- Yeah... 18:39 one of the coolest people I've ever met in my life. Um, Death Before Dishonor crew out of Duluth. Yeah. I met Gursak at that six-hour race. 18:48 I'd met Meiser somewhere, maybe I kinda thought maybe Chequamegon 100, the Q sheet year mountain bike race, uh, that he put on the first year. A- and I met you there, but how did you get into that crew, you know? 19:03 Huh, let me think about that. I'm gonna talk about your La Cruz for a second 'cause it, it is actually the, I think, the thread. So you bought a production cr- uh, La Cruz the previous year, or even the year before that. 19:16 Meiser won Trans Iowa on a prototype. Yep. And, um, wasn't really following the gravel scene. I knew what was happening with, you know, Mark, and, you know, I knew what Trans Iowa was. But Meiser rode it on a, um, 19:33 a 26-inch wheeled Salsa Mamacita. Yep. You know, a aluminum carbon mountain bike on flat bars. 19:41 Took third or fourth or something in his first year doing it, and then the next year he went back and rode the, uh, Ti La Cruz and won. Um, I love titanium. I mean, it... My... And so we started pursuing it. 19:59 You know, it's like there's something here. There was a lot of hype. Uh, I mean, a lot of hype in our very small scene. Mm-hmm. Um, but I just... I loved endurance. I love endurance events, and we just 20:13 made bikes that weren't there, you know? Right. Um, and kind of at that time, kind of fortunate, uh, we made bikes we also wanted to ride ourselves, and, uh, we just made 'em. Right. Well, it wasn't even complicated. 20:27 It was just like [laughs] Right. [laughs] It's like you're waiting for the next thing. I know. It's like, "Uh, and then we did it." Yeah. End game. And so, and so we made, uh, at that time, uh, El Mariachi, um, 20:40 Fargo, uh, Mukluk, and, uh, the La Cruz. Mm-hmm. 20:46 And pretty small production runs, and, uh, we made 'em domestically first, and then we, um, you know, we, we sourced them, uh, and designed new products with new capabilities elsewhere. Sure. 20:59 And, uh, started making some, some bikes offsh- uh, in Taiwan, where we have a, our own facility. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Uh, w- w- Ti, we'll talk... Yeah... we'll just stick on that trajectory. Yeah. 21:13 Uh, so through the grapevine- Yeah... I kinda start hearing maybe Matt or whoever, this bike with no name- Oh, yeah. The bike with no name... that exists. Yeah. You know? 21:23 I, I don't really know what it is conceptually, but I hear about it often enough- Mm-hmm... at races- Yeah... or, or on people's blogs. Yeah, yeah. You know, such and such was with Jason, and they saw- Mm... 21:34 the bike with no name- Yeah... or, or this or that. Yeah. And can you kind of explain, uh, and maybe timeframe the bike with no name's- Mm-hmm... existence? 'Cause MG owns it right now, right? 21:44 Yep, I- I know I did at one time. Thank you for that. You better because- Yeah, right. [laughs] Uh, you can buy it back. [laughs] Well, it's, it... Uh, I'm gonna go back one previous generation and talk- Okay... 21:54 about the original Fargo. Um- Yes. Game changer. We established with Salsa, game changer. Yeah, it was, uh, it was a... I took a early prototype, and when I was down at the, uh, Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational- Yep... 22:07 um, I actually rode down there with camping gear- Oh, wow... to ride the event. And, um, I wanted to ride this bike. We were gonna launch it in the fall, and so I'm like, "There's no way I can hide this thing. 22:19 I'm gonna ride it for 169 miles at Mark's event." Yeah. I think we only rode 139 'cause it was hot. Yeah. Um, but I rode down there with all my camping tape, and I put black electrical tape over the name. 22:31 I'm like, "They're gonna see it, but I'm not gonna give them the name." And so Mark coined it the black electrical tape bike. So 22:39 I started this weird reputation of, like, these weird name bikes, and so I built this bike with no name. But instead of calling it what it was, which was gonna be a Ti, a new generation Fargo- Right... 22:50 we didn't put any etching on it. Yeah, it's just a blank Ti frame, right? Blank. No labels. Yep. No etching. Yep. No anything. Yeah. 22:57 And, um, the only reason MG has it is this was actually a bike, uh, at the time I wanted to build right away, and so I didn't use QBP or Salsa funds or anything to design it and buy it. I bought it with my own money. Mm. 23:13 'Cause I had... I was training for Dirty Kanza. Right. I was gonna do Kanza. I wanted the bigger tires, the bigger platform, and I didn't wanna wait for a normal development process, so I made it myself- Oh... 23:23 with my own- So you can go that way, yeah... my own cash- Yes... out of pocket. Wow. And that's, uh, that was the bike with no name that, um, I don't wanna say became the Fargo. We were working on it. 23:34 Um, it has, uh, some similarities- Yeah... if you will. But yeah, uh, and so we made this bike. That's why I rode in Dirty Kanza. I rode a number of other events with it, um, kinda mad at myself for getting rid of it. 23:48 At least you know it's in good hands. [laughs] Somebody that at least appreciates its identity. It is. I'm gonna take it from his garage someday. All right. I'll go with you. 23:54 [laughs] Uh, did that have- I'll leave money... a suspension fork? I did. It was a, uh... I did adjust it. 24:01 I really took it off in El Mariachi, um, because that was the first bike I worked on when I worked at Salsa, uh, with, uh, that team, and so it's got a special place in my heart. 24:13 And I, I took that bike-And made the bike with no name. I just wanted a drop bar version. So it is a little bit different geometry and a little bit different than what is now, or at that time, what became the Ty Fargo. 24:26 Oh, okay. Uh- So it was more based on an El Mariachi, um. Linsky produced that? He did make that for me, yeah. Yeah. You know. I knew there was Ty- Yeah... Stilinsky. Yep. 24:34 They've, they, uh, produced some of the Salsa Ty- Yep, they did early ones... i- in your time at Salsa. Yep. Some of the early ones. Yep. Um, you know, 24:44 I, I think something that I always, that I want the opportunity i- in these podcasts to talk about, uh, or talk with, or expose, or whatever, i- is how the people that I'm talking to, you in specific right now, have, uh, affected me- Mm-hmm... 25:02 in now almost 20 years of the bike industry for me, you know? Almost. Uh, I started when I was 15, and besides about a three-month stint or four-month- Yeah... stint in a kitchen helping out- Mm-hmm... 25:13 a buddy, that's really all I've ever done. Yeah. Various roles in and out of wholesaling and, you know, this and that, but, uh, one thing that I've... 25:22 I feel like, um, every time that I needed to make some kind of a decision, um, somehow you have appeared. 25:34 [laughs] Uh, I, I believe, and I could be wrong, maybe I'm fabricating all this, but I believe in... 25:41 When World of Bikes was gonna bring in the Muck Luck, the original Muck Luck, you would've been on the team at that point. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And I, for some reason, feel like I reached out to you and was like, "You know, 25:55 how many... Do we actually do this? What's going on here?" You know? Because I'd built a couple Pugsleys and really enjoyed them. Mm-hmm. 26:04 But I just wasn't so sure of, you know, like dedicating floor space a- and, and bringing in all... You know, 'cause if you brought in a fat bike, you had to bring in bottom brackets and cranks- Mm-hmm... 26:17 and tires, and tubes to support- Mm-hmm... that, that bike, you know? And original Muck Luck was 170 space QR. Yeah, so hubs, skewers, all this stuff, right? It was like an investment. Mm-hmm. 26:31 It wasn't just a matter of putting a bike on a floor, not if you really wanted to support it. 26:35 And you, I, I kinda remember you talking me through like, not giving away anything, but like, uh, opening my eyes in a consideration that, that still exists for me today, which is, 26:47 you know, basically it boiled down to like, "Well, do you think people would enjoy that bike?" And I don't know if you remember, and it was m- over multiple conversations. 26:57 I don't even remember how we were talking back then, maybe email. Um, but and I was like, "Oh, yeah. Well, I enjoy this bike, this platform. I think people would enjoy this platform," you know? 27:08 And so we went with it, and I think we sold 12 the first year, you know, which wa- blew our minds. We figured we'd sell two. Huge dealer. Yeah, we were like the big dealer of the blue Muck Luck, right? And [laughs] 27:21 a- and that, you know, we took a risk, a- and luckily I have a luxury of trust with Ryan Baker, the owner of World of Bikes, um, where if I've done my diligence, he, he usually leans on me- Mm-hmm... 27:37 to be like, "Okay, this is, this is gonna be good," you know? And I had done my diligence, it's like, "Yeah," you know. And, and then everyone got on board in the shop, you know, it wasn't just like my idea. 27:47 But it, it's come up a few times. Uh, I remember the first Frostbike after I quit drinking. Mm-hmm. So I quit drinking in, uh, December. Frostbike is generally in February. Yeah. 27:59 Uh, I personally used to drink a lot at Frostbike, um, and everywhere else. Um, and you and I were in a Civvia booth, 28:10 not, you know, just in that parameter, and we chatted about like unlocking possibilities kind of thing. Mm-hmm. 28:18 Like a theoretical idea of like, man, now you realize what has hindered you kind of thing, or a thing that is- Mm-hmm... at least not ch- let you be up to potential. 28:28 And it's just crazy to me that while I don't get as many opportunities to, to sit and chat with you as I, uh, would like, almost all of them are very impactful to me. Yeah. 28:42 And, and I wanna tell you to your face too, you know, a- and in a recording that I'm very appreciative of that. Mm. 28:47 Because while you've never told me, "Do or don't," you know, at all, and I would not expect that from you- Mm-hmm... in many years of us knowing each other at this point, maybe 10 years, um, you've always 29:00 said what I needed to hear, [laughs] right? A- and I think that's a big deal, um, not mentor, not this, not that, you know, 'cause we have disconnects, but it's always been really nice to have somebody who I- Mm... 29:14 who's been with QBP for 24 years, who obviously has an understanding of the industry, you know? And an industry that I'm very passionate about. 29:22 Um, if you know me and Jason personally, we have pretty different personalities, I would say. Uh, you a little more reserved, a little more boisterous. Uh, it just is, right? But we connect on this level, you know? Yeah. 29:37 And so while Dirty Kanza and all these gravel events and passion, similar passions, man, it's been really fun to grow with people a- and see how, you know... 29:47 When I met you, you weren't the VP of Quality Bicycle Products brand, brands. 29:51 Uh, you know, my friend Benton Hunt, uh, who I thought I was gonna get to chat with today, but it's just not gonna work, uh, you know, we started just shop rats. Mm-hmm. You... Not exactly together, but pretty soon. 30:03 And, and his rise i- is very inspirational to me, and I always have felt that it was a great luxury to be able to communicate with people like that, uh, who have helped formulate my ideals in the bike industry. 30:16 Um-How have I shaped your interpretation of the bike industry, Jason? [laughs] Oh, boy. Now you're putting me on the spot. 30:24 [laughs] Well, I mean, first, I haven't thought about it this way, Adam, um, but now that you bring it up, that I was at these pivotal moments in your life, I'm kinda disappointed you didn't call me about your marriage. 30:37 But, you know, I forgive you. Uh, you forgot one, though, Gravel City, too, when you moved to Kansas. Yeah, Gravel City. You called- Huge impact on my life, right? Yeah. Like, um- You called me- Yeah... 30:48 to see if this was real. Right. It... Can we make a shop- Yep... in a town that- Yeah... can't support the shop- Yeah... by itself, that only sells- Yeah... gravel bikes? Yeah. Uh- Yeah... what am I doing here? Hmm. 31:01 I gotta think about that question. Um, you know, I told this to you on the phone when you called me. Um, for me, 31:12 the reason I lo- uh, one of the many things I love about you, aside from just your positivity, is your honesty. To a fault, at times. So we talk product, I know you're not gonna BS me. Right. If you like it, you like it. 31:26 Yep. You're not gonna just be like, "Oh, I better say nice things 'cause I like Salsa." Yeah. Or, "I like QBP," or, "I like this brand or this product," or whatever. It's like, "It sucks. Here's why." Right. Right? 31:39 And- Right, right... and so we've developed that over the years, um, that brutal honesty, and I think that transpires into other things, uh, for you and me. Yeah. You know? 31:52 And, and that's why I've always loved it, you know? It's like I always wanna find the, the thing to latch onto in people, you know? What's your superpower? Right. Um, people like you- Yeah... and you're brutally honest. 32:06 Yeah, I know. And at least that's my experience. Yeah. You know? And so, like, I think, uh, I lean on you when I have needed brutal honesty. 32:14 When we talk about tubeless or we've talked about carbon forks and lengths and features on forks over the years, um, I know you're always gonna tell me, and it's not just because, it's not, like, just 'cause. 32:26 You're gonna tell me, "Just because I wanna use it this way," or, "My customer said this," or whatever. And so for me, you've influenced me and product, 32:37 uh, really with that, uh, integrity of I'm always gonna tell you the truth, and I can always count on it. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever called you to hear what I wanted to hear, necessarily. I always- Yeah... 32:49 expected to hear what I needed to hear- Yeah... you know? Like- Yeah... a- and not to deter or detract- Yeah... but to frame- Yeah... in most cases, right? It's always been appreciated, a luxury that I have. 33:01 Um- The funny thing is, though, we've tried to ride together a whole bunch of times- Never works... and we're... It never works. Ever. We're gonna figure it out one of these days. It's been years. 33:10 Yeah, this year I wanted to get to Arkansas. I was down at, uh, tw- One Night Stand in Stillwater, Bobby Winchell- I know... 33:16 mountain bike race, and I'd already been gone for a few days, and I was gonna jet over, and it just didn't work. It was a real bummer. Or, like, when I was driving back. Yeah. I was down a 33:27 WABAC Adventure Monkey Photography thing and- Yeah, Eric Benjamin... Eric, Eric Benjamin down in, uh, Kansas, and I was gonna ride back, and you're... And I love barns. Yeah. 33:37 And there's a joke on the internet of barns for Jason. Yeah. There's a hashtag for it. And, uh, you were like, "I got this route." [laughs] You're like, "Oh, I'm gonna come by," and I'm like... 33:49 I s- you know, stayed up too late, drove too late, had to get home. And I, I'm, like, near Des Moines, and I was like, "I can't make it. I can't make it work. 34:00 I can't do another few hours in the car and, uh, and get home in time," and I called and disappointed you. But we've never been able to touch base, uh, and make that work, so. Uh, goals, right? Always goals. 34:13 Keeps me going, man. Yeah, keeps me going. [laughs] Yeah. Um, okay. Uh, man, I, uh, you know, I think your role is unique right now, uh, at, at Q. 34:28 I don't wanna necessarily dig into that, but I do appreciate, uh, that you do still call me- Yeah... from time to time when, you know, a, a big picture kinda thing is- Mm... 34:37 'cause I, I do wanna provide you not only an answer, but a reason- Yeah... in a lotta cases. Um, would you like to participate in a lightning round? Sure. It is the lightning round. Pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. 34:52 Those are also, uh, lightning bolts or shooting the gun, either one. Okay. Uh, gun hand signals. Four to five questions, rapid fire. Okay. Well, ish rapid fire-ish. 35:04 Favorite place to ride, favorite place or event to ride on dirt or gravel? Or if you have a dirt and a gravel, I'll take both. Souris River Valley, North Dakota. It's my private place. 35:20 My father-in-law has a plane hangar out there and a couple hundred acres of land, and I never ever see another cyclist. Wow. That's- Pure escape... off-road? Uh, it's a... 35:31 You know me, it's a mix of pavement, gravel, dirt trail, farm trail, bandit trail, maybe some land I shouldn't be on. Uh, maybe a river crossing, uh, 'cause the river is out, uh, or the bridge is out. 35:43 Um, I love to go get lost in, uh, the Souris River, uh, Valley in North Dakota. Great. Event that you've never done, that if all things were op- you know, you had the opportunity, event that you wanna go do? 35:59 [sighs] Not necessarily you think you can do right now, you know, but just event that you wanna participate in. I really like the, um... 36:09 I'm gonna get the name wrong, but the, um, in Michigan, touching both shores, across Mich- Coast to coast?... coast to coast. Yeah. Yep. Um, I like the concept. Yeah. I like the idea. 36:20 I mean, how awesome is it to touch-Two amazing bodies of water in one day Right Well, it might be a day and a half for me, but you know. [laughs] Yeah, you seem like Dam and- Yeah... you know, uh, Tr- Mark- Yeah... 36:33 Stevenson did the Master Series- Yep... Trans Iowa, which was west to east. Yep. But the coast- There's, there's something about-... to coast, there's something cool about that... 36:39 there's a different kind of feeling of start and finish in an event like that that has a, such significance on both ends. Mm-hmm. You know? And, uh, the Great Lakes, I mean- Right... I'm a Midwest boy. They're special. 36:55 Right. And I touch two of them in a day. So that, that to me is an event someday, uh, I'd love to do. Yeah. Call me, we'll ride together. [laughs] I got a place we can stay. Okay. Um, 37:07 didn't touch on it too much, but big f- big film f- f- uh, photography guy. Mm-hmm. Not film so much anymore, but- Not anymore... big photography guy. Yeah. 37:15 I kinda got exposed to you as well, and this is a long question in the lightning round, but I can do what I want. Um- Okay... Nat, Imagine Nat blog. Imagine Nat, yep. 37:24 Uh, I got exposed to with cra- you know, cycling photography and, and other photography barns- Mm-hmm... uh, that I'd never seen before. Favorite shot that you ever took, can you do that? Is that too tough? 37:38 Oh, I mean, I'm scanning my probably 250,000 image database right now. Right. Um, lightning round, you're not getting a short answer here. Yeah. There's a handful. 37:48 So, um, riding in Alaska on the coastline and, um, there are a couple images up there, uh, when, uh, the crew was filming the Reveal the Path where Mike Riemer- Mm-hmm... 38:02 and I went up and, and got to ride with them and, and shoot part of the movie and do some photography. Uh, but the... 38:10 There are several images in that set of, uh, people like Kurt Refsnider, Matthew Lee, that I, you know, have looked up to- Yes, Matthew... as really inspirational people. Um, and riding a fat bike that, uh... 38:24 in a place that was unexpected. And I mean, Alaskans are like, "That's a boring ride." Right. [laughs] Uh, but for us down here, uh, the idea of riding 100 miles of coastline on a fat bike is unheard of. Right. 38:37 And so there are a couple images up there, and I've done that trip three times now. T- yeah, I don't know, something like that. 38:45 Uh, that's really special, but, uh, I have a couple that are, uh, are Minnesota river bottoms. There's the John Gatto wheelie picture under the bridge at sunrise. That's probably my number one of all time. Nice. Um, 39:00 and, uh, and then it's personal. Sure. I mean, it's like the emotional connection to my kids and whatnot. Yeah, right. You know? But, um- Like, pictures of your family aside, let's say, you know? Yeah, bike side, um, 39:12 oh, man, the other one is Trans Iowa in the rain. Yes. I mean, I had some iconic images there, and there's one of, uh, Greg Gleason, the only person. Right. 39:20 This is probably my favorite image that I've ever taken, uh, for the moment. It might not be the best for image quality and composition and all that stuff, but the moment. Uh, I was taught photography is a combination. 39:33 You get a great picture when there's a light, composition, and a moment. Mm-hmm. That's the recipe, the secret, secret sauce is, uh, what this guy taught me. And, uh, that one hit it. 39:45 One guy to make the checkpoint, and I... and everyone's telling me I'm crazy. I stood out in the middle of the road in the freaking rain, no umbrella, 39:53 waiting for that shot, and I followed him out, 'cause I'm like, "Something's gonna happen," and he raised his hand. Raised his hand. I, I took one shot, and I got it. Yeah, it's an iconic shot in my opinion. 40:02 Yeah, and I sent... I gave it to him. Yeah, it's a- Yeah... that, that was- Yep... wild year. Yeah. And, uh, nowhere in the lightning round, but fun to chat. 40:09 On the bike side, that's probably, you know, the wheelie shot under the bridge and that, that image are probably the ones I've gotten the most comments on- Sure... um, that stand out as really defined moments in my life. 40:25 So, you know, those two are the quick ones that come to mind for me, Adam. Yeah, most definitely. Um, favorite food? Oh, my God. Uh- If you went to a restaurant that served everything really well, what would you order? 40:42 [laughs] Uh, c- Mine changes day to day- I know... but what are you settling on right now? Well, I've traveled to Asia for 20 years. Um, beef noodle soup, man, good, spicy beef noodle soup. Mm. Just yep. 40:59 Makes you feel good in the tummy. It's, it's the best. Um, but h- honestly, at home, eggs and bacon. Classic, can't beat that. I'm a, I'm a classic- Right... 41:10 and then you throw kimchi on a piece of toast, put your egg on it, like- Oh, God... John Fleck kimchi, I might add. Ah, nice. Uh, those are my two faves. That's awesome. Um, okay, I'll let you off the lightning round. 41:25 Um, you know, Jason, I appreciate your time. I appreciate you dedicating some time to me throughout my existence in the bike industry, specifically today sitting here, uh, with us. Um, [sighs] yours might be tough. Any 41:44 social media that you really follow? Insta- Let's do an Instagram that you really follow. Do you follow anybody that's just, like, blowing your mind with stuff? You can say a Cue brand if you want. [laughs] Uh, I don't. 41:58 Um- Do you social media that much? I do, but it feels like work. Yeah, right. You know? So I, um, the, the stuff I really follow is more, um... 42:11 Actually, there isn't any I really like right now, because they've all gotten so, uh, sponsored, so- Right... like, it, it's formulaic. 42:20 Um, so there's nothing I really like, but the w-Instagram still is, uh, it started around photography Mm-hmm I'm still there the most Mm-hmm And there's still the most inspirational images. 42:32 So for me, I follow folks that have, um, their own brand of photography or life or lifestyle. Um, I like authentic living, whatever it is. Yeah, sure. You know? 42:44 And, um, and those are the kind of people that I find myself following. You know, folks that like, they're not just telling you to like live in a tiny house, you know, to sell a tiny house. Right. 42:55 They live in a tiny house. That's what they believe in. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they believe in. Authenticity. Yeah. Genuineness. Yeah. And so tho- those are the folks that I tend in my... 43:04 You know, if you think of social media as my own free time- Right... it needs to be meaningful. Yep. And, um, I don't wanna waste my time, uh, following people that are not authentic. Agreed. 43:17 And, uh, experiences that are fake. Yeah. You know? And that's hard to decipher now. Right. Is... You gotta have a pretty keen eye for that- Yeah... sometimes. Yeah. 43:25 Uh, I don't really want your, necessarily your personal- Yeah... social media. Quality Bicycle Products, though, has an Instagram- Sure. Yeah... Twitter, Facebook. 43:33 What are those tags or those handles for Instagram, uh, Facebook? Quality Bicycle Products? Quality Bicycle. I gotta look 'em up. Yeah. There, we'll do it. Uh, Qual- I would assume it's Quality Bicycle Products. 43:44 You're gonna... I, I'm gonna get scolded for- Uh... not knowing this stuff off the top of my head. I thought it was maybe Quality Bikes. Well, you know the whole thing. 43:52 [laughs] People started it before you did, so- Yeah, I know. You just came into it... you don't, you don't, you don't have rights for it. 43:56 Well, while you're looking that up, one Instagram- So Quality Bike is- Quality Bike. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I wanted to clarify that. Yeah, yeah. And that's Instagram. Yep. Probably- Yep... Facebook, too. 44:05 Uh, you know, if you're looking for Instagram to follow, I stumbled upon one, uh, an amblake50. [laughs] You can totally follow him. Uh, it's pretty legit, totally authentic, brutally honest in some cases. 44:20 Uh, that's my own personal Instagram. I'm Adam Blake on Facebook. Um, I work at World of Bikes in Iowa City, Iowa. That's worldofbikesic on the Instagram, worldofbikes on the Facebook, and we are @qualitybicycleproducts. 44:37 Thank you to Quality for hosting us. Uh, they've let us have a conference room all day. We're very appreciative. Had some delicious sushi at lunch. Uh, i- it's just been a phenomenal day with phenomenal people. 44:48 I'm excited I got to cap it off with you, or, you know- Thanks, buddy... end, end with you at, on a really high note for me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be stoked about this the whole way home. 44:57 Um, if you wanna listen to this or anything else, fat-bike.com, number one resource for fat bike, plus bike, gravel bike gear, uh, what you need, some Gomez in your life. We all need a little bit of that. 45:15 Uh, check it out. Uh, listen to the podcast. Give us some comments. Jason, my brother man, I mean that truly from my heart, my brother, uh, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Um, we are... 45:27 [laughs] Yeah, that picture, Greg, is just money. Check it out. Check out Greg Gleason Trans Iowa photo. Yeah. It's black and white? I, I mean, I- I've seen it more in black and white... 45:36 I've only processed it in black and white. Yeah. Yeah. I've only shown it one way. Yep. And it's the- [laughs]... it's the Jam way. Thank you, man. Thanks, brother. Much appreciated.
