Transcript 0:01 Hey, everybody. It's Adam, back with the new PNEU Podcast. And, uh, to catch you up on where we've been, um, we've been finishing up our Women Who Rock series, had some awesome guests. 0:16 I imagine there'll be a part two of that series at some point. But we're gonna start digging into some different things now. 0:22 And, uh, over the last year, a lot of changes happened that were forced upon us, but a lot of people had opportunities to make changes, and one change that I had an opportunity to make was I had enrolled in the Iowa Culinary Institute, uh, in Des Moines. 0:38 So I'm a student again at the age of 36. Uh, I still do a little bike stuff, but I'm doing a lot more food stuff. 0:45 And involved in enrolling in a new school, we moved, my wife and I, and we've got gardens, uh, in the back of the house. So as a food service and preparer, I like to know where it comes from. 0:58 I wanted to start planting a garden. 1:01 So this leads me to our guest right now, um, who is not only my go-to guy for all things garden at the moment, whether he likes it or not, uh, but also a Baja Divide finisher, uh, a Tour Divide, eh, I can think of at least two, maybe three, maybe four time, multiple time Tour Divide finisher, uh, has been on the route southbound and northbound, uh, the former Cannonball 550 record holder and winner. 1:31 Uh, and if you don't know that event, we'll talk about it. Uh, and just a really good guy who helps me grow food to serve, uh, the owner of Johnson's Garden Center, in Kansas of course, uh, Marty Johnson, my friend. 1:46 How are you, Marty? I'm doing great, Adam. Ah, it's so good to talk to you, buddy. Thanks for having me on. Good talking to you, and it's always, uh, always good talking to you, um, 1:58 whether it's bicycling or gardening or, or whatever it is. Uh, I know you're a straight shooter and, and, uh, always [laughs] And, and I can't wait to... 2:09 You know, we talked about, we'll talk about later on about getting you down here for some culinary, uh, experience. Yeah, we're gonna leave that at the end. That's gonna be the, like, whoa thing. Oh, oh, okay. Sorry. 2:19 So don't spoil it for me. All right. All right. 'Cause we will go over stuff on this, so Marty doesn't know that I'm planning to drop the bomb. Um, but I think a cool... 2:27 There's, like, two specific stories that I remember, 'cause you're in Wichita, correct? Yes. Wichita, Kansas. Wichita, yep. Um, and I was in Emporia, so in proximity but not, like, always running into each other. 2:40 But two specific times that I, I remember, uh, crossing paths with you, and they've been very impactful, and I just found out recently that you also at least remember one, um, was, I believe the first time we ever met was the start of a Cannonball 550 event. 2:58 Um, at that time, not a lot of g- people running the race, so I was just there as the shop and hanging out. Uh, and you had an excellent event. I think you won and set the current record at that time, uh, that year. 3:11 And I don't know why I wasn't in the bike shop [laughs] 'cause that's pretty rare. But somehow you got in and out of the bike shop before I spotted you. We chased each other's tails around town unknowingly. 3:25 I was searching for you, and I left you a note, just a congratulatory note, because I thought it was a great ride. 3:30 And, uh, you just showed me about two weeks ago, that had to be five years ago, that you still have that note. And that makes me so happy. It was so cool. 3:39 Uh, we didn't hardly know each other, but it was just, you know, something cool. And then the, the second time, we sat down at the local cafe 'cause I got to pick your brain about Tour Divide. 3:50 Uh, I had some friends getting really interested. Uh, the O'Mara brothers still probably gonna give it a go soon. Um, and we'll get into your Tour Divide attempts, and I think this is a good segue, but 4:03 I just appreciated how honest you were. You mentioned I'm a straight shooter, but I asked you certain questions and, uh, it was just, "This is what works for me. This is what doesn't work. 4:13 You know, you're gonna have to figure some stuff out, buddy," kind of things. But I really appreciated the kind of genuine presentation. 4:20 That friendship has grown as we've made it a point to cross paths and communicate more often. We got some things in the future. But right now we're chatting, again, lucky us. And, uh, I mentioned, 4:33 have you attempted the tour six or seven times, or more? Uh, 15- I was trying to remember what you told me. Yeah. Uh, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. Didn't happen in '20. 4:50 So I, five t- five, five starts. Five starts. How many finishes? Uh, three finishes. Three finishes. All southbound or was one of those finishes northbound? No, all, all southbound. 5:05 The, the fourth one, I, I pulled out in Cuba, so that was- Not the island. Right, right. You would be lost at that point. Yeah, so that was most of the way. But the northbound was in '18 and, and my... 5:21 You know, I, and I still think it's not a bad approach to it. You know, you, we start, the group starts north, and this year at, at the border or in the pass in Banff, the second Friday in June. 5:35 And, you know, it's, that window for southbound, that's kinda where it is. You've gotta, um... There still can be snow up there. In fact, you'll s- you'll see snow in every, 5:47 every state all the way down, I think probably every year. But I, I'm thinking, you know, northbound, um, you, you start when it's warm, and you're not gonna have the, 5:59 the snow that you would and probably the r- the wet, cold rain.For a southbound and, and a- and at my pace, I'm a 30, 27-day finisher, and if you're southbound, 6:14 um, good chance you're gonna get the monsoons in southern Colorado and New Mexico. So if you start early, you're, you're gonna miss that. 6:22 So, but northbound's a different animal and I've, I looked and historically you c- you can look at track leaders. There'll be a dozen people that'll start north and one or two will finish. Yeah. 6:35 I don't, I don't know what it is. I think there's fewer people that are, that you ride with, even though it's always a solo event. 6:43 But I just think that, that northbound, it, it starts hot and I'm thinking, "I'm from Kansas, I can handle that." [laughs] Well it's, it's j- it's just different. Um, maybe more hills. 6:53 I've got, I've looked at the logistics, Marty, um, because I knew you'd at least attempted northbound and a couple things crossed my mind, but you already touched on w- uh, one. 7:03 The fir- uh, uh, the first thing I thought was I know there's climbing across the entire route, but I feel like finishing, 7:13 um, like Montana, Colora- you know, that to- on the latter half would be rough on the legs after you ac- already have so many miles in. I don't know if that's true, but it just seemed like it to me. 7:25 Uh, and the other thing I thought you mentioned was the, the rain that you can run into. That not only sucks to ride in, but that can like, I think it was '19 maybe, it just ruined a road for a long time. 7:40 Or it was either '19 or, or maybe a time trial in 2020 that somebody was doing, but somebody had a situation where they were basically just like, "We either hike or wait for this to dry," and that's a rough go, um, if you don't have a flexible timeline to finish it. 7:56 Yeah, you know, I, I don't... You know, the, as far as the climbing, the highest, the highest point in the, on the Divide is, uh, southern Colorado. Yeah. Uh, and so I, I don't know that the climbing- That's kinda midway 8:14 ... what's that? That's kinda midway. Uh, three-fourths of the way through. So- Okay... you know, that, I think, uh, I don't... You're gonna have climbing the whole way. You know, I think- Right, it doesn't matter. 8:26 [laughs] Yeah, finishing, um, in New Mexico, it's, it's flatter by that time and yeah, you can, um, yeah. It, it, it- Yeah... it's all the same. You know, it's all- Hard to predict, right. 8:39 It, it's kinda like one hand or the other. [laughs] Yeah. I also did wonder, uh, in regards to snow, if starting south and heading north wouldn't give a little more time for snow melt. 8:51 Would that matter and would it be good or bad? I mean, that could also- I think it's-... not be good, I guess. It, it would. I, it, it, I think it's, I think it's an advantage. You do? Yeah. I- Okay... I think, yeah. 9:02 I just, you know, I could see like too much and too much mo- you know, deterioration of roads and such. Right. Yeah. No, every, there are so many factors in it and it, uh, no two years are the same. 9:15 And, you know, I think the, the worst mud time that I had was in around Pie Town, uh, New Mexico. There was a s- spot there where it was, it was hike a bike, and, um, I know, um, 9:31 Billy Ryce got s- stuck in it. Um, uh, Hal Russell did. And so it, I think that was probably the worst time for me- What year?... as far as mud, hike a bike, and, you know, scraping it off the, your bike. 9:45 What year was that? '15. '15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's rough 'cause sometimes once you're in deep enough, it's like, "H- where do I go?" Yeah. You know? If you're s- Yeah, no... 9:55 to the point where your wheels stop turning, uh, uh, you're probably far enough in that even going back is really brutal at that point. But by that time you're, you're, you know- And where do you go back to, you know? 10:07 Y- exactly. Yeah. You're, you're done with it. You're probably... 10:10 And I've been lucky that Bannock Road in Montana is a, is a road where, um, it's, it can be wet and muddy and sticky, and I, knock on wood, I've, I've never had mud there. Lucky. Yeah. 10:24 'Cause that mud, you know, it, I mean, there's events that we both love that- Yeah... have had mud as a key part of them. [laughs] And, and if you've been there during that then you know what I'm talking about. 10:34 You know how quickly mud can deteriorate, not only the conditions, the bike components and the increased wear, but just your like, your soul. It just- Yeah... takes it out of you. Yeah. 10:46 You know, with, with wind and, and mountains you can kinda deal with it, but mud you, you just can't. Yeah. Right. You can, you can hunger- you can do things to mitigate, even rain to a degree. Yeah. 10:59 Uh, or cold, though, you know. But mud isn't- Yeah... it is what it is. What are you gonna do? Yep. 11:06 So one thing I wanted to talk about, um, and we won't even probably get a chance to talk about your Baja Divide attempt today, but or you, when you did it. Um, but that's such a cool route. 11:18 We talked to Jay Petervery about his Baja Divide route extensively 'cause he was fresh off it. Uh, and he's gone, has at least gone back and may be going back again. 11:28 I, I act- I actually think he's chatting with you about some things on that, which is really cool to know that people that I know know each other, and everybody's chatting. I like that. 11:38 Um, but going back to the very first time that we really interacted, uh, and we've mentioned it, there's an event in Emporia, Kansas, uh, it r- starts in Emporia, Kansas, uh, called the Cannonball 550. 11:51 Uh, it is a 550 roughly mile multi-day bikepacking route. Um, bikepacking kinda loose term on this one because it is, uh, can be done in so many different ways. 12:05 Uh, Andrew and Katie Strempke raced the crap out of it, uh, two years ago.Uh, I'm sorry Marty, your record no longer stands [laughs] But man, their, their, both of their efforts were unbelievable. 12:20 Um, there are people that literally stay in a hotel every night and plan their route accordingly so you can tour, uh, you can do a lot of things. 12:29 Generally still supposed to be under the self-sufficient ethos, so you're not having like a sag wagon with you or something. But kinda talk about how that event came, uh, up. 12:40 You know, who started it, how it kinda w- went. Uh, Pat Smith, correct, was, uh, t- early one of the riders that was riding with you and, you know, we'll talk about how that came. 12:53 It's now kind of moved on from Matt to Bobby. Uh, but talk about the Cannonball Fif- 550, uh, how you've seen it evolve, how new riders have, it changed the game in that event in only, what, five years of that event? 13:08 Six years now? I think, uh, I was- Is it more than seven? I think, I think '17 was the first year of it. Was it the first year? I, I think so. Okay, cool. And, yeah, that's further out. 13:21 I thought there was- So Matthew- I thought '16. I thought it had happened the year before I got there. Both years. I'll have to go back and look at my pictures, [laughs] 'cause, yep- Let's say four or five years though. 13:31 Yeah. You know? It's, it's still a new event, but it's changed i- in how it's been perceived- Oh... pretty quickly. A, a, whole lot. 13:39 And, you know, Matthew Slater came up with that route when he was training for, uh, Tour Divide. Yes. 13:47 And, uh, came up with the route and, uh, you know, I think like the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route, uh, they, someone comes up with the route and people have to race it. 13:59 And, [laughs] and, and i- it's very much just like the Tour Divide in that it's, it's here's when we're starting, um, and at 6:00 in the morning, and you're on your own and, and you go. 14:12 And, and yeah, that, that first year, um, um, there was just a handful of people that, that started it, and I was lucky enough to be the first one in. I think two people finished. 14:24 So you know, i- it's one of those things where it's like I'm the world record holder. And it was like- You were the best. Yeah, exactly. 14:31 And but you know, I knew, I knew that the fast people would come, and I think that's great. Well, then the second year, uh, Bobby Smith and I did it and- Bobby Smith. Sorry. Yep, no. Bobby Smith, yes. 14:42 But he and I rode together and, uh, again, he, he let me, uh, um, beat him by about six inches, so I was the two-time world record holder. [laughs] Repeat champion. Yeah, exactly. But you know, I guess we all have... 14:56 You know, I, I'm slow at these things, but you know, the Strymkes came that next year and they killed it. And, and talk about mud, they had mud. 15:05 Uh, I had carpal tunnel surgery that, that year, so see, that would've been 19, 18, so I think '17 was the first year. Okay. Um, and then you know, just like, like bike packing is, it's so, it's grassroots and, and, um, 15:23 i- it's, um, just, you know... 15:26 And the thing about Cannonball 550, um, Billy Rice's, um, event in the, in the s- in the wintertime, the 500, Grand Gravel 500 is, you know, it's far enough you've gotta manage things, but you're close enough where if you run into trouble, you, you can get in. 15:45 And I think those 500 mile, um, bike packing events are, you may never do the Tour Divide, but they're great experiences and, and they're, and they're, 15:57 I think there is a fee for, for Billy's, but they're pretty much free. And just, um, a- and just like what we talk, you know, it, it's a great learning experience, and 16:08 there's no right way or wrong way to do all of these things. But every time you do it, you, you change things. But i- it's a great learning experience. Yeah. 16:17 I, I agree with you so much that, that, that 500 mile, you know, we've seen a proliferation of 350 mile one goes, right? Like Unbound XL, things like that. Yeah. Fi- 500 is not one go, 16:34 like for anyone, you know- Yeah... pretty much, right? Like, maybe some people, but very, very, very, very minuscule amount of people. So you're forced to have to consider things. Right. 16:44 Um, you're forced to have to adapt to situations and plan ahead, and all of that is building blocks. 16:52 And what I love about, like, the route that Cannonball 550 had and has and develops and other, uh, events that are like that, you know, three to five to seven to eight to 10 days. Yes. 17:09 If you want to spend 10 days to do 550 miles, you probably can have a world of a good time. Because like you said, you're, you're never in desolation. Right. You know? You, there's a town. 17:22 What do you think the longest stretch on the Cannonball, uh, course is without some kind of civiliza- you know, like a town? 80 miles? 100 miles? The most? I, I, I don't know that it's 100 miles. 17:34 Yeah, 80 miles I used to think- Yeah... was kinda like the gaps. Yeah. So, you know, i- if you're planning those, like, 80 mile days, you know, that's a seven-day event, and that's awesome. Yeah. 17:46 Because if something goes, you can commit to seven days, but we all know that life comes and interrupts. And at any point, if you plan accordingly and logistically, you can dip back in in one or two days, you know? 17:57 Right. Yeah. Um, and I really like that accessibility with some protection. But like you said, you, you gotta do things. 18:06 And if you find out on night one that your tent system doesn't work, and you have a credit card, well, you don't have to fail the event. Just stay in-And, and the thing too about Cannonball, i- it's in October. Um, 18:22 you, you don't need a lot of gear, uh, cold weather gear. Uh, you've gotta have some rain gear. But, you know, if you're looking at five to seven days out, the meteorologists are, are pretty accurate. 18:36 So, you know, you know how cold it's gonna be. And that first year, um, there was, uh, one of those 90% chances of rain coming in, so... A- and it came in, so it... 18:47 We rode, or I rode late that last night just to get it finished before that, before [laughs] the weather came in. Yeah. I think temperatures, you know, you can kinda gauge. They're not gonna fluctuate. Yeah. 18:58 And then precipitation, you can have a gauge, but it can come and go, and you just have- Right... to be ready to deal with that- Right... as it goes. Now, I, I do wanna... 19:09 This always is polarizing, but I wanna broach it with you, because I, I will understand your perspective. Something that I personally believe is that in events like f- like the Cannonball 550, I believe it is, 19:25 it's hard for me to process going into an event without the anticipation and the goal of doing 550 miles. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, if you go into it saying, "I just am gonna see how far I ride," 19:43 how do you feel about when you're getting into these longer ones, and there's some communication maybe and group forming between athletes and all kinds of stuff. 19:54 I understand it's each person's individual ride, you know, and I want them to achieve the things. 20:00 But I feel like I get bummed out when I hear people going into a 550 mile event, um, and they say things like, "I just wanna see how far I can go." Because I feel like you can do that with route planning on your own. 20:16 Why isn't your goal, even if it's not realistic, just tell me your goal is to finish. You know what I mean? [laughs] Like, don't go in with these limitations. Uh- Yeah... how, you seem, I seem to hear that more. 20:29 Um, how do you feel about, like, obviously not wanting to inhibit personal growth for people, right? And pushing boundaries. 20:38 But I just feel like if you're not ready to do that with ride with GPS, Strava, all these routing systems, um, create a route for yourself that's the distance, that's a little bit further than you think you can go. 20:50 A- and an experience there versus in another situation. 20:56 I, I guess to extrapolate to the major scale, I would never line up at the Tour Divide starting line without anticipating and thinking that my ultimate goal is finishing it. 21:07 Now, things may happen, but I'm here to finish this event. Yeah, I, I think most people approach it like that. 21:15 And, you know, I th- of course, there's a certain amount of preparation riding the Katy Trail, riding the Cannonball 550, riding, uh, Unbound. You're, you know, riding these- Right... longer events. 21:28 I think you do have to be prepared. But you've gotta be, um, have that final goal as finishing. And, and a f- friend of mine who does, um, Mike Strong does triathlons. I mean, he... 21:46 A lot of ultra hiking and, and ultra runs. And I asked him one time bef- before I did the Tour Divide, I said, "You know, Mike, when you start something, at, at what point in it do you know you can finish?" 22:01 And he said, "When I start." Absolutely. I, I mean- Mm-hmm... I totally understand that, that confidence, that mentality. 22:10 And I think when we're talking about things like a 550 effort, this is where my, it starts to rise. You know, if you wanna jump headlong into a 100 mile gravel event, I encourage you all the time- Yeah... 22:22 to find out what you can do there. Yeah. You know? And I hope that your will and your determination will carry you the distance, even if your legs don't. Yeah. 22:30 But 550, you can, you can get yourself in trouble, and there is no way that in 550 miles you are not gonna have so many hurdles to get over. You know- True... 22:41 rain, mud, cold, whatever it may be, things you cannot control. For mechanicals, like, if you're not prepared to get to the end, they will crush you, I guess. It, it's too easy, I guess, to like give into that stuff. 22:56 But, but I think the people that are doing these things, that's part of the fun of it, is figuring those things out. If, if that 550 mile was, you know, doing what? 23:09 100, and you do it in three days, and nothing going wrong, you know, that's great. But I think we, I think we all look for those times when we have to walk in the mud, when we have to figure things out. 23:25 I think that's just part of the fun of it, you know? Um, couple weeks ago, the Foothills Gravel Ride, there was, you know, Bobby's ride. Um, there was a mud section. 23:36 And, and having been in mud in the past, you know, you hear some people kind of h- you know, complaining- Mm... about it. But it's like, this is great. It's, it's two miles. 23:46 And yeah, I've gotta pull some weeds out of my wheels, but that's the fun part of it. So I think u- unless you're not embracing that, then don't go ride 550 miles. Yeah. I guess, I guess that's kinda how I, I- Yeah... 24:04 roughly think too, is like, you embrace the suck, as someone once told me. You've got to. You have to. 24:10 That's the oppor- I al- I always felt, um, bef- you know, when I was riding more longer distance things, the thing that always-... relied upon, 'cause I was never the fastest this and the that, you know? 24:22 I'm just the guy that rode my bike a lot and happy to ride it, uh, was that I could fix things. Yeah. You know, I could manipulate my bike based on my experience in the bike shop. 24:33 I could do a lot of things, and I would almost be like, "Dang it." [laughs] Nothing happened. "Nothing broke." Yeah. "Didn't even fix a flat in 150 miles. What the heck happened?" 24:45 And, you know, I think probably 80% [laughs]... of the people out there are afraid of that, you know? I mean- Yeah, I love... I was like, "I'm just gonna put my rain jacket on just 'cause." Yeah. 24:56 Maybe the rain will come if I will it this way. Yep. People ask me sometimes about, "How do you train for the Divide?" And, and I say, "Wait till the, the, the wo- when it's raining, it's cold. Leave your phone at home. 25:11 Get on your bike and ride 100 miles." Yeah. I used to- So- When I was training for my first Dirty Kanza, it was like, "Oh, this day looks miserable. Guess I've got a long ride." [laughs] Yeah. Ugh. 25:22 But you, you start to train to where the bad isn't so bad. Yeah. And the really bad, you're kinda happy that it happened in a way, 'cause you get to use all this stuff that you've prepared for 25:33 maybe your whole life in different ways- Right... to, to utilize. Yeah. Cool. 25:38 Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, uh, maybe grab some coffee, things like that, and then we're gonna come back and we're gonna start chattin', you know, what, what do you need for a garden? How can you grow some food? 25:50 Because if you're riding your bike a lot, if you're training for the Cannonball 550, the Tour Divide, you should also be aware that good quality foods and knowing where your foods come from is how you can fuel the fire of training the most efficiently, in my opinion. 26:06 Uh, and sometimes cyclists are not as willing to acquire good quality foods as they are good quality rear derailleurs. 26:17 Uh, and so I think something like being able to grow your own food can, can cover a couple bases for you. 26:23 Um, so we're gonna pause, uh, come back real quick, and everybody hold on as I chat with Marty Johnson of Johns- Johnson's Garden Center in Wichita, Kansas. Hey, everybody. 26:40 We're back with the new podcast. We've been talking to my buddy Marty about, uh, his exploits in the ultra-endurance world and some, uh, cycling. 26:52 But I'll be honest, the real reason I have Marty on here, uh, not the real reason, but what I talk to Marty about the most right now is that Marty owns Johnson's Garden Center in Wichita, Kansas. 27:05 Um, he's got his fingers in a lot of different things, in the spices. His brother does some stuff, and we'll get, uh, how that all connects. Uh, flowers and food, uh, really everything. 27:17 Just put up some really beautiful new greenhouses that we'll chat about. 27:22 Um, and when we moved into our new house and we had garden plots, uh, I knew I wanted to start growing food for myself and my wife, because, uh, produce is, can be expensive. 27:35 Um, but it is also a, a base for a lot of the healthy things that we need. And this ain't a rant about, you know, ve- eat your vegetables and whatever, but i- i- they cost a lot, but you do need 'em. 27:49 To really prime the tank for good performance, uh, in an endurance cycling or any type of cycling, a, a well-balanced diet is key. Um, and like I mentioned before we went to break, sometimes cyclists' 28:02 value of food isn't always the best. I, I don't know how to say that. I've been in that, in that situation myself as a cyclist. Bikes cost a lot of money, doesn't leave a lot for other things. 28:13 Um, but talk to me, Marty, about what Johnson's Garden Center, or a garden center, 'cause not everyone's in Wichita, Kansas, um, what it can provide, what you provide to me as resources, just general things that if you're curious and you go to the garden center, but you're like, "I don't know what to ask them," what are some things that you should just be able to ask a garden center? 28:36 And then we'll kinda go in more specific stuff here in a bit. You know, I think it's, it parallels our industry, parallels with the biking industry. I agree. I- in that, you know, you have 28:53 m- most garden centers are small businesses, family-owned businesses. You've got the owner, uh, manager that is accessible, that has ex- experience in, in whatever it is, you know? 29:10 It's like, you know, I fiddle around with my own bikes and stuff, but when I have a problem, I, I go to the professionals at, at a, at a bike shop. And I think a garden center is, is the same way. They are... 29:23 Most garden centers are connected with their, uh, state land-grant universities, and so they have, uh, accurate research. 29:34 They, they're, they're connected with their local e- extension and their, the local master gardeners, and, and those people are, are trying different things. 29:44 And so I, I think the garden centers are a valuable resource for, for, you know, what, what grows in, in, in our area. 29:55 And, uh, chances are that they have, have done it, they experienced it, and, and they are passionate about it, and they, a- and they live it. You know, most... 30:04 You know, you know, it may be like a, a, a bike shop owner that, you know, doesn't get out and ride as much as they... You know, they, they got into a biking business because they love to ride bikes. 30:16 Well, they bought a bike shop, now they're not riding their bike. And, you know- Right... many times I think a garden center-... owner is, can be like that, but still they've been there and, and they've done that. 30:26 And, and realize, just like what you say, the, the, the, the value of, of the fresh food a- and, um, I've... You know, I, I still garden. Um, but, um... A- and I've got a large garden and so- and I, I'm 30:44 like a kid in a candy store. [laughs] It's like I can go there and pick out one each of all the different types of tomatoes and plant them. 30:50 Well, then by midsummer it's like I should have planted like a third that amount. But, you know, I still will plant a tomato, a pepper, 30:58 and have on my back porch so when I'm in cooking supper, I can go out there and, and get that fresh tomato a- and fresh, uh, herbs, basil, whatever. And it's... 31:09 I use more off my back porch than what I do out of my garden. Ah, yeah. 31:14 Uh, and, and that's what we're gonna kinda move into, but I wanna r- reassert two things is something that you touched on, just like the bike shop resource, is locally your garden center should know more about works, what works well, that the internet can only speculate on, um, with charts and this, but they don't necessarily know. 31:36 The internet didn't put seeds in the ground. So yeah, I think that's a big thing. Just like at a bike shop, they know the routes, they know the roads. They'll send you where you wanna be. 31:45 The, the garden center and what you've done for me, even in Iowa, is you know how to interpret things that I don't know about my freeze-thaw, uh, date a- and things like that, and how to kinda work within the structures, even as far away as Iowa. 32:01 Yeah. You know, yeah, we know the varieties that have... You know, people ask me, "What tomato do you plant?" 32:06 Well, I always plant Jetstar 'cause i- I know it does very, very well in, in our area and, and know when to plant them and, and, and- Right... and all that. 'Cause of that experience. Yes. 32:18 A- and I'll touch on the second thing, uh, and it'll lead into what I really wanna talk about, but I think unfortunately most people have never got to eat a tomato or a basil out of, uh, right off the vine. 32:31 Because even the... You know, farmer's market's the best opportunity probably for most people- Mm... who don't have a garden to get real fresh produce, but even the best grocery stores, that produce has been shipped. 32:42 Um- It-... and the most delicious is right away [laughs] in most- You know, the... And, um, yeah, that, that tomato at the store, and, um, has been, uh, developed for 33:00 picking green, turning red. In, in that process they're all the same size. They, they look really good. Th- they're perfect. But, you know, going to a, a, uh, a, a farmer's market, that... 33:16 I would say that also requires locally grown produce. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, so I think that's very important. And just like you say, you know, you know who, 33:26 where your food came from, and you can talk to the person at the farmer's market that grew that food. My, my brother, who I've sent you his garlic- Yeah... 33:34 a- and I wrote about this- We had a spice pack from him, the breakfast blend. It was delicious. Oh, isn't that... Th- yeah, that savory in there. But his, Megan, um, his partner, she... 33:48 W- We- Wes had thrown the idea out about let's just buy these herbs in and package them, and Megan was like, "Nope, we're not gonna do it. It's not the same." And, and, uh, and that was the end of that conversation. 34:00 And I, and I'll have to echo that because I remember getting some dried cilantro from, uh, the local spice place, and it's like, you know, I taste this, like, it doesn't... Then there's no taste there. 34:13 I dry my own cilantro and it's, it's the best stuff ever. Yeah. Well, think about how geographic, uh, affects industries. Bourbon, you know, like i- initially was developed on the, the water that... 34:30 You know, your soil has a distinctive taste. Your water has a taste. All these things have a taste, uh, that contributes to the most... 34:39 Uh, maybe what I'm going for is, like, the most genuine representation of what a tomato in Kansas tastes like or- Yes... for me, a tomato in Iowa tastes like. You know what I'm saying? 34:50 And so I think something that you touched on that I love is you mentioned your back porch over your garden, and I think probably the hardest thing for me to conceptualize if I hadn't moved to a place with a garden is, like, 35:04 how do I... w- where do, can I... where can I garden? How much space do I really need to be able to make it worth my time to grow some stuff? You know, uh, urban g- or, you know, urban gardening, these kind of things. 35:18 Um, what do you think, you know, is like, hey, if you wanna u- just grow herbs, you only need this much space and a couple planters, you know? And then this is... Really you only need this. 35:29 And can you kinda walk me through some basic things that even if you don't have access to a garden in your apartment or your house, if you've got access to some open air, you could probably even grow these things. 35:40 You know, I think, you know, seeing your backyard, I don't know what size your raised beds are, but- My raised beds are six by six. I... You know, if you, you know, go 35:53 even a, a four by eight or a six by six is really pretty small, and I think, you know, most people have room for that in their backyard. Of course, it's gonna take... You've gotta fill that up with- Mm-hmm... 36:04 with something, some soil. But, um, you know, I, I would say work towards that. 36:09 And those raised beds, it, it's like a, a big container, and I think with, with a good soil that, that drains in there, you can, you can buy compost from your garden center, or if you're composting at home, um, mix that about 50/50 with, with just dirt. 36:27 Um-So it doesn't take that large of an area. If you're g- just starting out, go get some, like a five gallon tub. 36:39 I- if it's going to the, the local hardware store and buying some of their buckets, poke some holes in the bottom of it, get some good potting mix, put that in there, and 36:52 that, that orange bucket's maybe not gonna be the prettiest thing, but I can guarantee it's, it's gonna grow, it's gonna grow good food, as long as- Yeah, it'll hold dirt-... you poke holes in the bottom... 37:01 and it can drain water and- It's gonna drain water. You're gonna e- and it's gonna do fine. And, you know, and, you know, most of those potting mixes you get have no nutrition in it- Mm-hmm... 37:12 which I think is good, because you wanna add the, the type of fertilizer that is for vegetables or for- Sure... for flowers or, or whatever. So you don't want the, the manufacturer of that soil- 37:28 Right, 'cause they don't know-... putting in... right? Like, they don't know- They don't know what you're growing... what you're gonna put in it. 37:32 A- and, and most of the time, that, that fertilizer that they put in there is going to be a time release, and by the time you get it, it's probably already spent. Yeah. 37:41 And, you know, one thing that we've got is my wife, who's been chatting with you, she has a, uh, like more of a decorative garden that she's gonna run with some flowers and stuff. 37:49 So just like you said, we're not buying one... we're not buying the same thing to grow radishes as we are, you know, some of her more decorative flowers. And I- Yeah... 37:59 I think that's something I didn't realize as much- Yeah... uh, admitted, like dirt. I knew you needed food, you know, some kind of- Yeah... 38:06 fertilizer, but it's kind of all the same thing to me until I started chatting with you. And also, my dad is a great resource, uh, as a gardener. He's been doing it forever. 38:17 But, um, you know kind of like what's available in a retail setting versus what's just the best. Yeah. You know? 38:26 And you, you, you talked too about, about the cost of fresh produce, whether it, you know, wherever you get it at. And, and I'll go up and look at, at our, our package of, of seeds that, that we sell. And, and I'll, 38:40 I'll get a packet of seed and, and plant a row of squash and, and it's like... or, or radishes or whatever. It's like, there is no better value in food than vegetables. 38:52 And I'm looking at this little packet of seed, and it's like, who needs 12 squash plants? Right. [laughs] Right. Yeah. No one does. Like, this is way more than I could ever use. No one does. 39:00 It's like- And it costs me $2 and some hard work. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, there, you know, if money's tight, there is no better value in food. 39:09 And it, you know, we've talked about the advantages of, you know, fresh produce and, and just like, you know, your wife, she can... you know, you can plant some vegetables, and there are some beautiful... 39:20 Swiss chard is a amazing- Beautiful plant... beautiful plant. And, and, uh- Heirloom tomatoes. Beautiful tomatoes. Right. So, oh, yeah, I mean, the heirloom varieties of tomatoes are, they're gorgeous. Gorgeous. Yeah. 39:33 Yeah. Yeah. Good word. [laughs] That's what I would've said too. Um, you know, so let, let's say somebody wants to get into it. 39:43 Um, we kinda talked about how herbs, uh, can be done in small, and by and large, are pretty easy to manage. 39:53 But if somebody goes to the point of building a four by eight or a six by six at their house with some elevation, um, what, what's kind of the good... Like, you've mentioned, I'm always a tomatoes and peppers. 40:05 And I think that's kind of two that I always think of. But list like a top five, if you're just gardening, these are plants or vegetables specifically that get reasonably good yield, 40:18 are, have an aesthetic value, let's, let's contribute to that, and o- are a good value in, in what you're getting versus what you'd pay for e- and, you know, and they're easy-ish to cultivate and curate, you know? 40:33 I would, um... Does that include tomatoes and peppers, or do I, do we go beyond? Let's just tomatoes and peppers and three more, let's say. Okay. So tomatoes and peppers, we'll just... 40:44 I think those are the two most prevalent, right? Okay. Right. I would say, uh, um, squash. Squash. And I mean, you've got your, you know- Zucchinis, would that- Zuc- Would that be in there? Zucchini, yellow. 40:58 But I would, I would try some of the, um, acorn squashes- Sure... butternut squashes, because they're gonna... 41:05 You know, there's a, there's a joke about leaving your window open at the, in the summer at the store because someone's gonna put a sack of zucchini in your car. You're gonna have... 41:14 You're always gonna have free zucchini. Right. But, you know, grow some butternut, some acorn squash that, once they're ripe, they're gonna last for what, weeks, months? I don't know. They, they last a long time. Yeah. 41:26 Versatile too for soup, stews- Yeah... can be preserved- A long time... pureed. Yeah. I, I, I would say that the, the, the fall squashes or, or the butternut squashes, um, that's three. Um, you know, 41:41 radishes are so easy e- early on. Yeah. And, um, you know, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, the, the cold crops are, are so easy, and, and I sent you some of those. And, and, uh, and, and, you know, you're in Iowa. 41:57 Your, your season's gonna be... Your heat's gonna come on later than ours. You'll have a great, um... But, but in, in Kansas, I would say the fall cool season crops do so much better than the springs, the spring heat. 42:12 'Cause of the aggressive kinda heat and lack of coverage. It, it- It just beats them down. Yeah. You, you get to, you know, May, June, it's 90 degrees. Right. Where a fall- For a long time. Yeah. 42:22 Y- where, in the fall, if you plant a zucchini, and by the time they're done planting your, your broccoli for fall, it's gonna go till November. Oh, wow. So you get a hard freeze. That's awesome. Yeah. 42:32 And then, you know, the root crops, like I say, radishes, and there's a lot of different types of-... unusual, uh, root crops that, that's gonna go into the fall. 42:42 And even the, the spinaches too, you can gr- plant those and they're gonna last great into the fall. You can put a covering over there. I've got a friend that who's here in town, he harvested spinach all winter. Wow. 42:57 Yeah. Just a resilient plant. And he had like a high tunnel. He had some plastic over it. Sure. But yeah, it, I, I don't know how it did with our 17 below- Yeah [laughs]... but, 43:08 uh, um, it, uh, on a normal winter you'll, you'll have that all, all, you know, 12 months out of the year. Yeah. 43:15 And I think, um, you know, some of those that you mentioned, radishes maybe not as much, but tomatoes, peppers, uh, squash, spin- leafy, hearty kind of greens, those are, just what I said, heart... 43:30 Like, those are substantial things. 43:31 They can be plugged into everything that you're eating and, and really bump up not only the nutritional content, but you'd be amazed at how much you like what came right out of your garden, especially in situations. 43:44 You know, I rarely put tomatoes on a sandwich, but a garden fresh tomato I'll eat with just a little bit of salt and pepper on it. Oh, yeah, just going in- It's just a totally different game. Yeah. 43:55 Um, and so I think you'll not only be impressed, but you'll have so much, 44:00 uh, you know, like your work will pay dividends, uh, for everything, and they can be canned and prese- you know, it's a real rabbit hole, um, when your yield- Well-... 44:09 is more than you expected and you just find ways to use all of these things. And just taking those tomatoes and putting them in boiling water, blanch them, get that skin off there, it takes about five minutes. 44:21 Toss them in a Ziploc bag, throw them in the freezer. Yep. And you're ready- Yeah... to go for sauces- Yeah... all kinds of different stuff. Yeah. Tomato soup in the winter with grilled cheese. Mm. Yeah. 44:31 That's good, you know. Yeah. 44:34 Well, uh, one more thing I wanna talk on before we get to the vaunted lightning round is, uh, a- and we'll remind you at the end, but Marty's Instagram is Got Chili, and not the delicious beefy stew with an E. 44:49 Can we talk for a little bit about why hatch chilis are so good, and [laughs] just chilis, and you, you've been to... Have you competed at competitions or just gone to, like, chili festivals? 45:01 And, you know, hatch chilis do really well in your area. Uh, not as much up here, but I love that, that chili pepper specifically. Can we just kind of- Yeah... talk about it? 45:14 You know, you, you asked, you know, why, why hatch chili, and of course, um, my son and I had gone to Colorado in 1999, and a friend has a garden center there. 45:26 You always talk about promotions and he said, "You guys need to be doing green chili." And it's like, "What's green chili?" It's like he explained it, and it's a, you know, it's a, it's like a jalapeno except larger. 45:37 Um, and it's, there's mild, medium, hot, extra hot. 45:40 But along that Rio Grande River, um, and especially southern New Mexico, the, the soil, the, the climate, the water is perfect, ideal for growing this, this green chili pepper. 45:54 So we, we started bringing those in and, and by growing them in that, in that climate, they've got a real thick s- thick, meaty skin to it. 46:03 And, and, um, so, so we started bringing tho- those back and, uh, have built up a, a, a pretty good demand for, for that. 46:13 And, you know, we were surprised that when we started doing it, people were like, "Oh, we used to drive to New Mexico to pick these up and, and do it." So, you know, the green chili just 46:23 is a wonderful flavor, like I say, from mild to, to extra hot, and, um, great addition to- Everything... spaghe- e- e- you know, spaghetti, eggs, you know, scrambled eggs. Green chili sauce on everything. 46:40 Macaroni and cheese. Yeah. Whatever, so. Yeah. And I think what you talked, talked on is something that, um, people struggle with, I think, is spice and peppers, you know? Yeah. 46:51 A- and, you know, you can build a tolerance, but some people go crazy with that, I think. But I have always loved the hatch, because, uh, its pepper flavor is good but not oppressive. 47:06 Specifically when roasted, I mean, you can just e- it's got a sweetness and a fruitiness and a... 47:13 It's a very dynamic pepper across the palate, and I think that's why you've seen such a almost, like, cult following, I guess I'll call it- Oh... for specifically the hatch chili. Yeah. I, I call it the legal addiction. 47:26 Yeah. It's a good one. Like, when it's season, it's just one after another. And, you know, I think that's a good point that you made too, Adam, is, like, I used to always had to have the hottest, you know? Yeah. 47:38 I'm a tough guy. I want, I want the hottest stuff out there. But I'm, I'm, now I'm, I'm getting the mild. It's just... Or maybe some medium. 47:47 It's just, just the flavor in it and, um, yeah, you can, we can do hot, but it's just sometimes that's all you get and you miss the flavor. Yeah. 47:56 And I would add that, you know, for me, considering if I'm doing multi courses in a meal, uh, if I blow the p- the customer or the diner's palate apart with too much heat, they, they don't come back. No. 48:09 Um, so restraint, a time and a place for just massive heat, but also a pepper like the hatch or what I used to... You know, up here the poblano is, like- Right... my jam. Yeah. 48:19 Uh, Anaheim sometimes, but the poblano I just love, because it's smoky, sweet, spicy. It, it's a very dynamic pepper. It's not just hot, and I think people just think peppers and hot. 48:32 And that poblano is great for stuffing, you know? Oh, yeah. It's got some, some size to it where you can... I had a chili relleno the other day and it was- Oh, good... 48:39 a poblano and, and, um, yeah, it's a little easier to stuff than the, than the hatch. But, uh-Yeah. 48:47 But g- but, you know, uh, just the, the consideration of, like, it doesn't always have to just be hot to, uh, really enjoy a pepper. Now, n- now have I talked to you about the shishito pepper? Shishitos? Yes. 48:58 We actually have some in the restaurant that I work at right now. Oh. We just put some, uh, I think we smoked them, and then we're probably fermenting them too, I would imagine, somewhere or somebody is. 49:08 Yeah, that's my new favorite pepper. Yeah. It's so good. I, I say it's like, it's like Russian roulette because you'll get a warm one in there [laughs] Yeah, every now and then one just really gets you. 49:17 Jalapenos can be like that, but the shishito- Yeah... for sure. Yeah. Uh, so speaking of spicy things, Marty, are you ready for the world-renowned [imitates gun firing] Ooh... lightning round? I am. All right. 49:31 It's, like, some rapid fire E-type questions, just first kinda thing that comes to your mind, uh, or short answer. Um, it's intense. [laughs] So- I know. I, I listened to JP this morning. Ooh, it's go time. All right. 49:48 Your favorite vegetable to grow? Peppers. Any type of pepper. Any pepper. It's so easy. Yeah. What is your favorite get-me-outta-here snack when you're in the worst times on a bike? Uh, unflavored Frito chips. 50:06 It's corn, corn oil, and salt. Just straight up- Clean, clean-... Fritos... clean food. Yep. Uh, that's a pretty good one. And yeah, salt boosts you up. Yep. Tastes good too. 50:17 Um, when you do go out to eat to a restaurant, do you have a thing that you just are always honed in on, "If they have this, I'm ordering it"? Uh, burritos. Burritos. Nice. Yeah. It's- Any... Do you... 50:34 Anything in a burrito, as long as burrito's attached, are you cool with it? I get the, I get the pork burrito, and I get it smothered with chili verde. And- Of course. A- and, you know, it... 50:47 And tomatillo green chili is okay, but I, I love the, the pepper green chili. Me too. So. Uh, what is your longest single day mileage on a, uh, on a bike? It'd be 51:04 probably 225. 225, roughly? Yeah. Um, and this one is specific for you, Marty. Well, they all are, but how do I keep these damn rabbits from eating all my cauliflower? [laughs] Stupid rabbits. 51:22 Yeah. You know, we, uh... There's some anim- Repels All is a repellent that has lemon, garlic, uh, dried blood in it, and they don't like it. Ah. Yeah. 'Cause I don't wanna, like- What's that? 51:37 I just, I just want them rabbits to stop eating my cauliflower. Yeah. They can be there. Yeah. I just don't want 'em to eat it. Yeah. Some of the, the natural repellents, um, are, work best. Pretty good. 51:49 Marty, that was a pretty easy one. You kinda crushed that. Lightning round [imitates lightning] Ooh, did it. Over with. We'll have to touch base again 'cause I'll do a double lightning round someday. Um, so 52:03 before we get to a quick social media plugs, I do wanna say, uh, stay tuned for 52:10 social media stuff because, as Marty alluded to, he and I have been chattin', and something that I wanna do, uh, as I'm growing in my culinary skills is, uh, use some of m- the produce that Marty and, and surrounding friends grow to, to do a big dinner, uh, of some kind. 52:30 And so I've really appreciated being able to communicate with Marty on my own personal garden and learning about having to use stuff and getting that opportunity, so everyone's gonna have to keep track of both, uh, all the social media stuff that we're gonna provide to see how that turns out and see if it, 52:48 if it works. [laughs] Of course it will. [laughs] Yeah, it'll be real good. I just wanna... I love the opportunities to cook with people's regional food, uh, to prepare what they've spent time. 53:01 Uh, uh, unfortunately, I think a lot of times, like you said, you do so much gardening in consideration of gardening for the garden center, you know, s- my bike's chain is probably the last one to get lubed. Yeah. 53:14 It is what it is. So, you know, it'll be fun to come in and let people eat some of the stuff they grew, uh, hopefully in some cool ways. Marty, how do people follow either you or Johnson's Garden Center on social medias? 53:28 Um, I think you and your brother do some small, um, snippet, like, videos, um, somewhere, maybe YouTube. Uh, let us know about those, and then we'll of course put 'em, uh, under the link as soon as this page comes live. 53:42 Where can we find you, Marty? Okay. M- my son and I do, uh, Johnson's Garden Time, and you can go to Johnson, on YouTube, Johnson's Garden Centers. Cool. And they are... We, we post those on there. We do a, um, a... 53:59 Nine months out of the year, we do a little three-minute little, uh, promo on, on the local ABC affiliate- Cool... on Saturday and Sunday mornings. So they can find those there. Um, we do, uh, 54:13 my, like you mentioned, my Instagram is godschile, C-H-I-L-E. And, um, love to show pictures of bicycling and garden and plants and all that. Beautiful new greenhouses. Uh, our, our new greenhouse. 54:29 We put up a new greenhouse this, this winter, uh, production greenhouse, um, modern greenhouse. The s- the side walls fall, drop down. The roof vent opens up, so we can cool that, those plants, um, 54:45 for basically free, no fans running. Yeah. Um, uh, I, I, I've got a, I've got a, uh-A blog. I don't do a good job of updating it, maybe this will get me going, but it's bucketsride.bike. 55:03 Okay. Bucketride.bike. Um, started, you know, I would do my Tour Divide recaps on there. Yeah. Um, um, so of course Facebook, Johnson's Garden, um, or johnsonsgarden.com on the internet. Um, so- Yeah... 55:19 Marty Johnson on, on Facebook, so. Yeah, definitely, uh, check Marty and the, the garden center out on Instagram too because the... 55:30 We didn't touch on all the details, 'cause even my mind is somewhat blown about the greenhouse. 55:36 But the pictures in there, uh, just like you said, l- you know, not walking around a greenhouse with a bunch of fans blowing and all this, it just looks like such a pleasure. 55:45 I kind of want to just go wander around in it for a while. Oh, the fans are always squeaking and- Yeah... this is so nice. And it's ambient temperature in there. 55:52 So the other greenhouses, even with fans, it's probably, in the summer it's probably 10 to 15 degrees hotter. This'll be what it is outside. Yeah, that's so cool. Uh, my social media plugs have kind of changed. 56:03 They are still amblake50. Uh, that's just my personal one. It's a lot of food. You can also find me at, uh, the Des Moines Cheese Bar, is where I put some retail food out. 56:16 Uh, and even ICI Chefs, which is the Iowa Culina- Culinary Institute's Instagram. Uh, that's pretty much the only social media I rock and roll on anymore. 56:28 Uh, but if you want to find this, and somehow you found it without... Wait, that doesn't work. Anyways, fat-bike.com, all the new podcasts, even the old ones, uh, updating stuff. 56:44 We're gonna try to do a few more, uh, food and garden stuff coming up, because I really think that I want to consider how we can all get to, uh, doing things like Tour Divide. 56:57 A- and to me, a really establishing point of that is eating well, or at least knowing what you can. 57:04 A- and nothing that you necessarily can't eat that's not poisonous, but just being aware of what you're doing and how you're fueling the fire, uh, to keep the training going, keep succeeding, keep pushing. Uh, 57:17 fatbike.com, everything you could ever want apparently, 'cause we're going all over the board. Yeah. Marty, thank you so much my friend. It is, uh, always a pleasure to talk to you. 57:29 I'm so glad that I have a garden, and it's re-upped another excuse to send you texts a- and just keep in contact. 'Cause I love your perspective on, on bikes too, but, uh, just knowledge base. 57:42 Like you said, you are, to me, in a garden world, what I like to try to be for people in the bike industry. Well, that's, that's, uh... An honor to hear you say that. 57:52 Well, I, I think that's, you know, that's why I talk to you. Uh- Yeah... if I didn't think that I was getting the best advice, I'd probably talk to someone else. Yeah. 58:01 [laughs] Hey, now, now, now you've mentioned, you touched on it, our little... We're gonna do an e- event, food event- Yeah... down here. And w- hopefully we'll tie it in with Chili Fest, which is- Yeah... 58:12 I have to look, that third weekend in, in August. Mm-hmm. We'll have hash brown chili, we'll grow some other s- other things, and we'll visit back and forth. But let's do a dinner. Yeah. And it'll be a, 58:28 a charity for somebody, something. We'll pick out something. Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the best ways, I wanna make sure I take care of, uh, your inner circle of people. Uh, but then I'd love to... 58:40 I think a huge part of food is getting the community involved. Um- We can do that... and so hopefully as 58:47 just all kinds of situations get better, we can start doing some things where maybe it's gonna be some small plates or a small ticket, and we're gonna donate some money. 58:56 Uh, we're gonna get there, so keep track of both of our socials as, you know, July, August starts rolling around for details, if you're in the Wichita, Kansas area. 'Cause- Yep... 59:06 it's gonna be worth it and it's gonna be good. Yep. Marty, buddy, thank you so much. Thank you, Adam. I will talk to you soon- Yep... whether you like it or not. 59:15 [laughs] Fatbike.com, take it easy, stay on your bike, and enjoy the day. Bye-bye.
