Transcript 0:00 It's the Danger Gnome podcast for January 2021. 0:05 [gentle music] Hola, amigos. 0:25 It's your Tio Gomez here in the Danger Gnome Fat Bike Radio Studios. I am here, and we have the ambassador to Alaska and the Yukon Territories, Mr. 0:42 Travis Hubbard, with us here. Welcome to the show, Travis. Good. Thank you, thank you. Hola, Señor Gomez. [chuckles] Very nice to speak with you again. So how's she going? It's going good, yeah. 0:56 It's, uh-- We got, uh, lots of snow down. Trails are rolling great. Uh, everybody's staying safe and healthy. So yeah, life is good, man. Yourself? Cool. Well, we have, uh, we have quite a show in store. 1:11 This is the, uh- We've got a snow night... 1:13 Made in Minnesota holiday special, where we're gonna talk about a, uh, the Onyx Berd Head special wheel set with Anne Head from Head Cycling Products and one of the founders of Berd Spokes, Charlie Spanjers, uh, from Berd Spokes. 1:34 I think I mentioned that, Berd. It's like B-E-R-D, though. Berd. They're the, uh, the fiber spoke folks. And, uh, we don't actually speak with, uh, the folks from Onyx Racing, but, you know, 1:49 both Charlie- Made [audio crackling]... and Anne talk a little bit about the special hub that they designed for that special wheel set. 1:57 And, uh, for the first time ever, we have a special Danger Gnome After Hours segment with Crazy Chris Daisy, which all started with a text that he sent me that turned into a segment here on the show. 2:14 And the music's still going, just tinkling away in the background. Waka, waka, waka. [laughing] Chill, dude. So that's what we got coming up here, uh, right after a message from Capybara Butter. 2:31 When you get sweaty, you need Capybara Butter to cool you down and make a good life with your saddle. Look for tins of Capybara Butter at bueno bicycle shops in Honduras y Costa Rica. 2:47 It's the one with the capybara on the tin. Smooth like butter, friendly like a capybara. Buena suerte, amigos. Welcome to the Made in Minnesota holiday edition of the Danger Gnome podcast. 3:02 Today, we're going to delve into the lightest fat bike wheel set on the planet. Head Cycling Products has partnered with Berd Spokes and Onyx Racing to create something of a, of a fat bike wheel rock and roll supergroup. 3:19 Today, we're lucky to have Anne Head from Head Cycling Products on the line. Welcome to the radio program. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to tell you about the special edition Head wheel. 3:34 So this fat bike wheel is super cool from the decals on the rim, to the spokes we use, to the finish of the hubs. 3:47 We went into this wanting to make something that was totally unique, and between the contributions of Berd Spokes, Onyx Racing Products, and us, I think we really knocked it out of the park. 4:01 It's-- is the lightest fat bike wheel in our current lineup. Uh, the decals feature a limited northern light theme. Mm-hmm. 4:11 Uh, so we paired up with the black Berd Polylight spokes and speckled the black Aura Onyx hub so that it would give you that whole Minnesota feel. 4:23 Um, I, I think it's just exquisite and beautiful, and, uh, we also decided to partner up with a couple other Minnesota brands, the FK Coffee, so when you open the box, you get some local coffee beans- Oh... 4:38 that were roasted here in Minnesota, and Gasola Granola. I have a dear friend of mine, Angie, and she makes the best granola around. 4:47 So the box comes with this amazing wheel, um, and then you get some coffee and granola to enjoy after your bike ride. Nice. Some like farm to table, local artisan kind of, uh, kind of thing going on there. 5:00 That's very cool. And these-- The, the, the wheel set weighs six- between sixteen hundred, seventeen hundred grams, right? Yes. Oh. It's really light. 5:13 It's about a hundred to a hundred and fifty grams lighter than our current setup. So we do them in, uh, twenty-six inch and the twenty-seven five sizes, so you can get them in both sizes. 5:23 So we're super, super pr-proud of having those carbon hoops made right here in Minnesota like we've been doing for years. We're really proud that our carbon comes from, 5:34 uh, the US, and we just really wanted to do something that was Minnesota, all Minnesota and US. And then 5:43 Berd Spokes, which are about half the weight of a traditional metal spoke, that's a, that's a fiber spoke, so looks a little like spaghetti with a, with a loop on one end and a, and a 5:56 threaded end on the other end.And then Onyx Racing hubs that have a special finish to them to complement the, the, uh, Borealis decals, and it's also a special hub, right? 6:16 Yeah. So Baird actually went to Onyx, and I, I feel proud because I really kinda introduced them. 6:21 I, I've been fans of both of them for years, and obviously, you know, Baird, when they started, I-- they were in the Min Cup and, and I was one of their advisors. 6:30 And then Jim from Onyx is, again, his product is fantastic, and they went to Jim, Charlie went to Jim and said, "Hey, I, I need help building this wheel up," and he actually made a specific hub just for those folks. 6:45 And the, the flange of that hub has hooks on it that, that hook onto the end of the loop of the bird spoke or? Right. Yes. Yeah. Yes. 6:55 Cool, 'cause the, the pictures that I've seen, I haven't been able to, like, clearly see that. So, uh, that'd be interesting to, uh, to see that, that 7:05 a specific adaptation in the hub to facilitate even the l- the lightest and the most, uh, advantageous setup to use those bird spokes. Right. 7:18 And I know they did an extensive, uh, test to make sure and, you know, like we do here in, in our own R&D facility, we test our hubs, we test our spokes, we test the rims. 7:29 We actually have, you know, a, a wheel building testing machine, and I know that, uh, they take great pride in testing those spokes with that hub and they did phenomenal. 7:41 So that's why we feel so confident that it's, it's not only light, it's strong, and you'll be able to get a lot of miles on it and, and be assured that the spokes and the hub system with the rim are gonna be, you know, around for a long time. 7:56 Nice. So this super group that, that I like to call Onyx Bird Head, I know that has you in the end- [laughs]... but it makes the most sense. It's like a black bird head made from 8:09 onyx carved like a s- like a crow's skull. Could be the album cover of your, of your first album. Um, but how did you guys, how did you guys really come to get together? Did you go to Woodstock together? 8:24 How did it all work? Well, you know, I, I wish I could say that, but honestly, you know, if you think about the year we've had, uh, it's been pretty challenging. 8:33 And I remember sitting in a meeting back in March, you know, and this is right when COVID hit. Mm-hmm. 8:40 And I was trying to think about something positive because, you know, it's been, like I said, pretty challenging in April, May when, uh, everybody was, was doing what we were doing. What are we gonna do? 8:51 What's, what's the summer gonna be like? What's the fall gonna be like? So I literally came up with this idea in a meeting and I said to some of the other people in the meeting that I wanna do something uplifting. 9:04 You know, what can we do, uh, in the s- in the fall or the winter, uh, to, to do something innovative? And so I just said, "You know, I think we should do something all made in Minnesota." 9:16 It's something I've wanted to do for years. Mm-hmm. And, um, and it was really my idea. I said, "Let's, let's do it." So, 9:25 you know, we've been, we've been making all kinds of wheels since, since 1984, and we're really proud of that. 9:31 But I, I reached out to Charlie, uh, at Baird just because, again, Minnesota is, it's got this little mecca of, of manufacturers. 9:43 And I said, "What do you think about partnering with Jim from Onyx and we put together this really light wheel?" 9:52 And, you know, it was, it was just some kind of inspirational, fun, kind of innovative thought I had just because I think during this really tragic year that we've had, you have to have something positive. 10:05 So it was just kind of my little brainchild that happened on kind of a somber day when I'm like, "Hey, I need something to think about that's positive and, and innovative." Hmm. 10:14 So it was just in a meeting and it just popped in my head. Uh, and turned out to be a really smart decision because all of the, uh, you know, the, the chain coming out of 10:30 the Far East is, is really questionable right now, and to have domestic production really is the best way to ensure that you can actually have the product to sell. 10:42 And, uh, the Made in Minnesota wheel set is on sale now, and it's a limited edition version, right? And people have to order by, is it the 15th of January? Yeah, that's the date that we, we put on it. 10:57 I mean, obviously we're not gonna turn down a sale. We had a s- a certain amount of hubs made and- Yeah... 11:03 you know, we're just trying to, to make it available so that people would have- So it might go be a little bit beyond that, but- Yeah... people should jump on this 'cause it is a limited time offer. Um- Right... 11:19 the, the wheel set goes for $3,200, um, and they can order right through your website, right? They can, or they can order through their local shop. Oh, right on. So you can do it either way. Yep. Cool. 11:32 You can go through a shop also. So we didn't wanna make it just, uh, consumer direct. We have a lot of shops that we really believe in supporting, so you can do it either way, whatever you prefer. Cool. Oh, and, uh, 11:46 so jump on that, kids. And the other thing that I have on my list of, uh, things to talk to you about is that Fat Bike Worlds is coming up and HED's a sponsor. So yeah, obviously we're a sponsor. 11:58 We unfortunately are not physically traveling there. 12:01 We have been really focused on staying safe and healthy here at HED, and we've been so fortunate, and we're, we really areReally busy with, uh, fat bike sales, all kinds of sales, and we decided that, you know, you would probably see plenty of our wheels out there. 12:19 Mm-hmm. Um, I think last year there was a lot of the top men and women finishers were on our wheels. 12:24 But, uh, we've been talking closely with Andrew Doke of, um, of the, the race director, and we actually will be giving a set of these wheels out there- Okay... for a prize. Nice. 12:37 Uh, but I think, you know, we're just gonna stay kinda close to home and, uh, and stay safe just because, you know, we are 12:45 making as much product as we can each day, and just traveling right now is, is something we're gonna- Yeah, that's why I'm not going... uh, not do. But hopefully. [laughs] Because- And again, I, I wish I could be there. 12:56 Yeah. Just like everybody else, but- Yeah... yeah, we're- I, I wanted to go. I said I n- needed to go, and, well, our, our Denver correspondent is gonna go and that's, that's- Mm-hmm... 13:07 that's just the best we can do right now with, with, uh, being responsible. Yeah. Yeah, me talking about being responsible. [laughs] That's kind of funny. 13:19 Um, so I guess my last question is, we're putting each guest on the, on the spot and saying, "What kind of fat bike do you ride, Anne Head?" Well, you know, my very first fat bike was a 907 C- carbon. 13:36 That was 2014- Yeah... -ish, I think, and it was fabulous. Uh, it was an extra small, and I loved it. Uh, and, you know, they were kind of at the forefront and still are really making fantastic products. 13:51 Um, unfortunately, I've never made it to five-foot-two. I'm trying. [laughs] But I'm a little challenged in height. [laughs] Always have been. 14:00 Um, and I've been riding bikes, you know, since the early '80s and, and I know that a fit is really important. So I have a longtime friend here, Eric Noren. 14:11 Uh, I am sure lots of you folks have heard of Peacock Groove or Cake. And he made me this amazingly beautiful... I mean, I can't tell you how beautiful this bike is. 14:23 It's, um, it's a white frame that I chose with blue butterflies, and it's all custom painted. We did, uh, the hubs to match. They're 24-inch wheels. And 14:37 I cannot tell you how many people stop me when I'm riding that bike because it, it is just a work of art. 14:44 My daughter, uh, rides also, and she was so jealous, so he custom made her a polka dot one with the same blue colors, and I gave it to her for graduation. Hmm. Cool. It's, it's the most beautiful set of bikes. 14:58 Sorry, I just can't tell you how, how much it fits perfectly and how beautiful it is. So it's, it's... I'm rolling on art. 15:05 So it's, uh, it's, mine's a Peacock Groove and my daughter's is a Cake, and we ride all the time together on them and we get stopped. Very cool. Yeah. Been through Greg Bryce, been through Filthy Fifty too. 15:17 [laughs] Yeah. Uh- That's awesome. Yeah. That's my, my bike of choice. Very cool. Peacock Groove made by Eric Noren. They're right there in Minneapolis- Mm-hmm... too. Um, and- Right... he is just, uh... 15:30 Man, those bikes are jewelry, you know? Like, or- Yeah... or artwork, you know, a sculpture. Uh, so that's pretty awesome. I guess that didn't put you on the spot very much, did it? 15:45 [laughs] Question, my probing, my probing question of, "So what, what fat bike do you ride?" 15:52 Makes mine- Well, we support a lot of the other, you know, frame builders, but, you know, when, when you're, like, challenged like me, I need to have something that's made custom, so. Yeah. And that was the, the- Yeah... 16:03 the problem that that bike solved, or that movement, that 24-inch wheel bike- Right... solved was for people of your demeanor, so yeah. Right. Or is that the correct, is that the correct nomenclature for height? Oh. 16:21 Stature maybe. I, I, um- [laughs] I, I, like I said, I, I'll never get to five-two, you know, and that's okay 'cause I, I feel that I can, I can... 16:33 I'm just so happy that I can just get on my bike and keep rolling those fatties down the road and, uh, and enjoying it, and now with the Minnesota snow, we've been super blessed with gorgeous 25, 30-degree weather with, with a lot of snow. 16:47 So there's just fat bikes all over my neighborhood. It's really cool. Indeed. You live in the capital of fat biking, I think, Minneapolis. I do, and where I live there's about- Or one of the capitals, I guess... 17:02 20 miles of groomed trails. Yeah. So I'm really fortunate. I can go out my back door and just ride. Yeah. We're lacking in the, in the grooming these days. The groomers kinda all, 17:13 they had a few bad winters and they kinda gave up [laughs] I think they're, they're relearning their craft, or we have bad snow. "Dang it, this is the wrong kinda snow." [laughs] Right. Yeah. 17:26 We're, you know, we're, we're just, you know... If you're in Minnesota, you, you can find snow, and we have really good groomers here, so they're all over the place. A lot of the trails are groomed. Well, cool. 17:38 Any closing thoughts before we let you go? You know, I just am really happy that you asked to have Head o- on your podcast and, you know, we are really proud about this wheel. 17:50 So if you're interested in it, just either you visit your local shop or call us or go online, and we'd love to make one of these beautiful wheels for you. Cool. Thanks for being on the show. 18:02 Next up on this amazing episode of the Danger Known Podcast, Gomez welcomes Charlie Spanders to the show. He's gonna talk about bird stuff. What kind of bird is man's favorite bird?You are listening to Fat Bike Radio. 18:19 Welcome to this segment of the Danger Nome podcast. On the phone, I have Charlie Spanjers, who is one of the co-founders of Berd Spokes, and Berd Spokes are the lightest spokes on the planet. Is that right? 18:36 That is absolutely right. So I don't know out there in listener land if you're familiar with, with Berd, but, uh, you probably have seen pictures of spokes that look, uh, a little like spaghetti. 18:50 Uh, and that is, uh- Yeah... that is probably the Berd spoke. Are you the only fiber spoke that's out there? And am I, am I killing -- [laughs] am I using the correct nomenclature there? No. 19:04 Um, so we, we are the only fiber spoke that's compatible with conventional hubs and rims. Gotcha. 19:12 And so there's, um, you know, there's a company called Synergy who's been around for a long time who's been making fiber spokes, but they've had some downsides because they, they only work with, um, with proprietary hubs and rims. 19:26 Um, and then similarly, there's another small company, um, in Germany. 19:30 But, um, you know, by and far we are, we're the only fiber spoke company that, that you'll see, um, bicycle shops building with because, you know, we're the only one that, that wor-works with standard components. 19:43 So when I, when I learned the spelling of Berd, it's B-E-R-D, I, I thought that the person that I would, that I would, uh, find at the top of the ladder there at the company, I, I thought for sure that their name would be Berd, that their last name would be Berd. 20:00 Is one of the other founders named Berd? No, not exactly. So we, we came up with the name, um, from, from the two words bike and nerd. Ah, okay. So that's, that's where, where it comes from. Gotcha. 20:13 Well, that's a good story. That's, that's, that's perfect. Do you guys like Devo? 'Cause that just makes sense to me. I don't know. [laughs] I'm crazy. [laughs] Anyway, uh, so 20:24 my next burning question is what, yeah, what are, what, what are these things made of? I mean, is it some kind of secret or do you have to kill me if you tell me or? [laughs] I do not. 20:36 So the, the spokes are made of ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene, which is a mouthful to say. 20:44 Um, [clears throat] ultimately the material is, is polyethylene, so it's got the same chemical, um, you know, substances that, um, plastic bags- Mm-hmm... 20:55 have in them that come from the grocery store, you know, just polyethylene. But the, the difference between regular polyethylene and ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene [clears throat] 21:04 is the way in which it's made and formed. 21:06 And, and so this material has, has super long chains that are all aligned along the length of the material, um, which make it the strongest, the highest strength to weight, um, material in the entire world that's produced commercially. 21:24 Wow. Um, so it actually has the strength of diamond along the length of the fibers, and that's the way in which the fibers are being pulled, um, in the spoke. 21:33 And so the, the spoke is made of braid, made up of a braid of these fibers. 21:37 There's actually, um, about a thousand fibers in each individual toe, and a toe is one strand of the braid that you can see, and then there's 12 of those, um, toes in our braid. 21:51 So it's a 12-stranded braided ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene rope, essentially. So do the math out there, kids. That's a lot of fibers. [laughs] Yeah. 22:03 But, and, and your spokes can work with any type of hub, straight pull or traditional, traditional L type of, uh, you know, like what a normal spoke looks like. Uh- Right... so it can lace- Yep... 22:18 be laced to, to any rim and any hub and saves just a ton of weight. But the thing that really intrigues me is vibration dampening. Can you- Yeah, and just to go-... tell me a little about that... go back a little bit. 22:33 Sure. Yeah. 22:33 So to tell you a little bit about the spokes, so they've got the fiber, the braided fiber, then the, the two ends, um, the first end is a, is a loop, and that loop can interface with standard J-bend and straight pull hubs like you said. 22:47 Mm-hmm. Um, it, the loop pulls through the hub hole. Um, on typical hubs, it pulls through the hub hole and then it's secured by a rod- Mm-hmm... 22:56 um, that, that goes through the loop which prevents it from pulling back through. And then on the other end of the spoke is a, a threaded stainless steel rod. 23:05 And so it's a, it's a standard spoke end with a fourteen gauge two millimeter, um, thread that interfaces with normal fourteen gauge, um, bicycle spoke nipples. Mm-hmm. 23:16 And, and then, you know, so of course on the, on the, the rim side, the rim, um, has no idea, you know, that the spoke is any different than a, a traditional metal spoke. 23:26 Um, and that, you know, the, the biggest part of, of our, um, you know, of our company, of our, of our intellectual property is the, the connection between the, the stainless steel rod and the braided fibers. Mm-hmm. 23:41 Um, and that's, that's our patented connection and it, and it relies on the, the Chinese finger trap effect, um, as the fiber, it's a hollow braid, and as you pull on the spoke, that braid, um, constricts- Mm... 23:55 and it, and it actually increases the holding force the, the higher you pull on it, so, or the harder you pull on it. 24:01 Um, and so, you know, that's, that's what makes that bond and that connection so strong and that, and that'll never fail in service. Cool. And you mentioned- Yes... the Chinese though. These are not Chinese spokes. 24:12 These are made in America, right? Yeah. I think, I think that's an important distinction. [laughs] You know, Ch-Chinese finger trap is just what people, you know- Sure, yeah... 24:20 recognize as the name of the device you might have played with as a kid. But- Right... but the spokes are, they're designed, engineered, manufactured entirelyUm, in Hopkins, Minnesota. 24:31 So we do all of the spoke manufacturing here. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I learned of your product from, uh, a bike dealer in Green Bay. Uh, it's the Broken Spoke s- bicycle studio there. And- Yep... 24:45 I, uh, up until last winter, our, our main podcast, uh, featured Leia Schneeberger as one of the co-hosts, and she- Okay... has run those wheels for a whole season. 24:59 So, um, everyone literally I mention this product to, and I, I, you know, I've been pretty stoked about this. George got me re-stoked th- when I did a interview of him a couple of months ago. 25:13 Uh, I've been looking into this and, and talking to [chuckles] whoever will listen about, about your product- Yeah... right? Yeah. 25:21 Invariably, and I talk to a lot of bike nerds, dude, I, I, you know, and, and bike shop professionals, uh, that each, like 100% of the first question they ask is, "So are they durable?" Yep. 25:39 That is a great question, and, and, um, so, so the simple answer is yes. You know, maybe you've heard this from some of the people you know who have ring them- Mm-hmm... you know, at Bro- at Broken Spoke. 25:51 Um, but, um, you know, we've, we've now done, um, fatigue testing where we, where we put our wheels on drum fatigue testers and we compare them to stainless steel spokes, and the, you know, the fatigue life of our spokes is better than traditional stainless steel spokes. 26:09 So they're, you know, they're expected to last longer, um, in, in most applications than, than steel. And man, I, I saw a, a short video on your Instagram that showed four times the amount of force that 26:27 is used as the benchmark in testing spokes. Uh, you dropped that onto a Bird Spoke built, I don't know, it was, it was either a gravel or a road. It was something narrower than a fat bike wheel, and 26:44 the weight bounced on that rim and the, the spokes just f- bowed outwards and then returned back to looking like new, right? Um- Right... and that just blew my mind. 26:59 But my question is, what, what were you trying to demonstrate there? Like their resilience, uh, or is that somehow 27:08 linked in with, with the vibration dampening and/or something that's probably even more so as any kind of shock absorption or- Yeah. Yeah. Well, you, you hit on a lot of different points there. 27:21 So, um, you know, so first of all, uh, you know, our spokes have, have a high strength. 27:27 And, and so in the, the test that we showed, that you're talking about on our Instagram, that's an impact test, and that, that test is, is typically done to evaluate the strength of rims. 27:39 Um, and, you know, what you'll find is that as you get to high enough impact, eventually you'll cause a rim to crack. 27:45 And, you know, every-- People do that test intentionally just to see what the impact strength of, of a rim is, because any rim ultimately will fail. Um, 27:55 and, and in that test, you can-- what you can see though, the other thing is you can see that the spokes go out of tension, and when typical metal spokes go completely out of tension, and then they go back into tension again, they, um, they're, they're likely to fail over time, you know, if they continue to do that repeatedly. 28:13 Right. Especially, especially at the bend for a J-bend spoke, that's where you'll see that type of failure where, where you unload it, load it again. 28:20 You know, it's a, it's a bending type failure that you'll get over time. 28:24 And our spokes are, are, are much less likely to break because of that, because of the fatigue life of the material is just ultimately it's better than steel for that type of fatigue that you see. 28:36 Um, you know, and so we do all kinds of other tests. Uh, we do torque fatigue tests, um, where we, we take a rim and we simulate, um, you know, pedaling, you know, with really hard pedaling uphill. Mm-hmm. 28:48 Um, we do that sort of testing and we do individual spoke fatigue tests too, um, you know, just to compare to, to steel. Um, but, but so the other question you asked about is the, is the vibration damping. Yeah. 29:01 Now, you know, vibration damping, it's, it's not that, it's not the same thing as suspension, you know? 29:06 And so what we-- that big impact we show in the video, you know, that, that doesn't show, you know, that doesn't really show suspension or vibration damping. Um, that's, they're different. 29:16 You'd, you'd see the same sort of behavior in terms of what the wheel look like if you had metal spokes. 29:22 The vibration damping is something you can't see, it's just something you can feel, and it's an intrinsic property of the material. And if you take a metal spoke and you pluck the spoke, it'll ring very nicely. 29:33 You know, you can-- I'm sure you've done that before on wheels. Sure. Right? You pluck the metal spokes and, and it's because steel transmits vibrations very nicely. 29:42 Our material, um, because it's polyethylene, it doesn't transmit vibrations the same way. And, you know, if you pluck it, it'll, it'll, it'll just vibrate for a short period of time and then stop vibrating. 29:53 And so ultimately, you know, when you're riding on a gravel trail or you're, you know, or a single track, um, that has bumps on it, that'll cause your, your handlebars and your seat to vibrate, you know, as you hit more and more things, it just continues to vibrate more and more. 30:08 Um, and that vibration is what, is what our, our spokes get rid of, um, or reduce because of, because of the properties of the material itself. 30:18 That's super intriguing for me because my mind goes right to washboarded gravel roads where- Yep... that type of property would be a benefit. Yeah. 30:30 And, you know, the, the vibration damping, that's something-When we first developed the product, we measured that. 30:35 So we can measure that in a lab by putting an accelerometer onto a wheel and impacting the wheel, comparing it to steel, and you can, you can watch the vibrations damp more quickly. Mm-hmm. 30:46 But then, but, you know, now that's, that's the most common feedback that we get on our spokes, um, more so than the weight-- the weight savings is the vibration damping. 30:56 And, and you know, you hear, you know, we, we hear it from people who have arthritis in their hands and they s- say, "You know, it just makes such a huge difference," es- especially for long rides, you know, and, and other customers who do the Day Across Minnesota, for example. 31:11 Mm-hmm. You know, two hundred and forty miles and, you know, and over long periods like that is when you, when you really start to notice the, the benefit of the, of the vi- vibration damping. 31:22 That is-- That, that's just super intriguing to me. Uh, the-- And the-- You can't really just gloss over the, the weight reduction either, because I know- Yeah... in the, uh, 31:36 the made in Minnesota wheel set that, uh, Hed and y- your company and Onyx Racing put together, that wheel set saves eight hundred grams to other comparable carbon wheel sets- [laughs]... 31:53 in the fat bike genre. Um, have you put a number on what the average, you know, like how, how much lighter are your spokes than traditional s- uh, metal spokes? 32:06 So our, our spokes are half the weight of high-end metal spokes, you know, so they're half the weight of a, of a Sapim CX-Ray or a DT Revolution, for example. 32:16 And so you save about two and a half grams per spoke in the... You know, that's sort of the worst case scenario, right? 32:23 Two and a half grams per spoke times, um, sixty-four spokes in a wheel, you know, about a hundred and fifty grams. And so, so that's what we typically say. 32:31 For, for high-end wheels, you'll save a hundred to two hundred grams. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, [clears throat] 32:37 you know, if you're looking at wheel-- a fat bike wheel though that, that might have a, you know, an intermediate spoke, like a, a one point eight millimeter butted spoke, then, then, then you can definitely save upwards of, of two hundred to even three hundred grams on a wheel set. 32:51 I guarantee you most people have those spokes on their fat bike rather than- Right. Yeah... a Sapim CX-X-- CX [laughs] Ray. Do I have the... Is it CX-X Ray or C X-Ray? I can't remember. Yeah, just C X-Ray. Yeah. C X-Ray. 33:07 I put an extra X in there. Um, so that's, uh, so you can't glance over that, that weight reduction, and it's reducing weight at the most critical spot that you can reduce weight. Um- Yep... 33:24 still comes down to, you know, George tells me he doesn't pull any punches on, on his, uh, bird spoked wheel. And I've seen that guy, you know, do five-foot drops and whatnot. And he doesn't just have it on his fat bike. 33:38 He has it on a specialized regular mountain bike, a dual suspension mountain bike that's, uh, that's on your, featured on your website I see. Pretty hot-looking bike. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So that's pretty interesting. 33:57 And my last, my last inquiry is like, can any shop build these wheels, or do you need a special certification? You don't need any special tools. Yeah. So, so any shop can build with our spokes. 34:11 Um, we-- you do need special tools, but we sell those tools as a, as a kit, um, to, to bicycle shops to be able to build with our spokes. 34:20 And, um, you know, my, [clears throat] my advice to bicycle shops is, is, uh, or, you know, or just my, um, is my advice to shops is that it'll take some time to, to get proficient to build with bird spokes, and so it's, it's different and particularly the, the lacing process with standard hubs is more time-consuming than lacing a metal spoked wheel. 34:44 The, uh, you know, the, the process for truing the wheels is, is similar to metal spokes. 34:51 And so, um, once, you know, once, once the shop builds a few sets of wheels, they will get much more proficient and, and it'll get, get much quicker and, and easier. 35:02 Is there a, is there a preferred dealer list on, on your website or anything? I know Broken Spoke Bicycle Studio can build them, 'cause everyone that I know- Yeah... 35:12 that runs your wheels, I believe they built their [laughs] they built those wheels. But, you know, that's our little, little slice of cycling here in, in Wisconsin. 35:20 But are there dealers across the country that can do that or preferred dealers or? Yeah. So we, we do have dealers across the country. 35:28 Um, and, uh, that's, that's something that we'll be adding to our website, um, soon, is a list of, you know, of our retail partners, our, our preferred dealers to, um, to build with bird spokes. Cool. 35:41 Well, I'm gonna put you on the spot now and say, what kind of fat bike do you ride, Charles? [laughs] Well, you know what? I am, uh, I'm lucky that I, I just got my, my first fat bike this year. Nice. About a month ago. 35:57 And, uh, it's a, it's an Otso Voytek. Oh, very cool. So, you know, they're, uh, they're local, of course, to us here in, in Hopkins. 36:06 And, uh- And narrow, narrow Q factor, so it doesn't, you know, doesn't, uh, mess with your birthing hips or anything. [laughs] Yeah. Something I don't have to worry about, but- Oh, that's right. 36:17 It's about your knees, not your hips. Yeah. Something like that. Well, that's cool. I thought, I thought for sure you were gonna be like, "Uh, fat bike? I haven't gotten around to fat biking [laughs] yet." Yeah. 36:29 So well played. You've passed the test. You have a fat bike. Nah, nah, nah. Well, it wouldn't have mattered.'Cause you have a PhD in something, and you've come up with an incredible product that we look forward to, uh, 36:45 jumping around on. Yeah. You know, and so we can talk a little bit more too about the, this collaboration between HED and Onyx. Oh, sure. Um [clears throat] Yeah. 36:55 You know, so this-- We're, we're really excited about this. We were... 36:59 You know, I was approached by Anne to-- Anne from HED to create these, these wheels, and, you know, it's a, a great opportunity with all three of us being, you know, within about sixty miles of each other here in Minnesota. 37:13 Um, and, uh, you know, what's, what's really cool about this is that, um, because, because we started talking with HED and, and we got, we got Onyx on board, we're able to, to work directly with Onyx to develop these new hubs specifically for our spokes. 37:30 Mm-hmm. Um, so the, the Onyx hubs have, um... And you, you know, you've probably seen pictures of these now. They have, instead of hub holes, they have hooks. 37:41 And so some of the, the difficulties I talked about with, with lacing a, a standard spoke, um, or a standard hub and our spokes taking longer to do, we've eliminated that with these new hubs with hooks, and they're super, super fast and easy to lace with Berd spokes. 37:58 Oh, cool. And, um, you know, it's a really nice, clean look, and it's-- and it's the lightest weight hubs, you know, it's the lightest weight fat bike hubs that Onyx has ever made. 38:08 They're-- These hubs are, um, I think they're about two hundred grams lighter than your normal, um, fat bike hubs for the set. So, um, you know, I think it's a really 38:19 cool set of wheels, a great collaboration, and, and there's gonna be more long-term between all three of us, um, all three of our companies for, for other applications as well. Well, that's great. 38:30 I, I have, uh, been a long time rider of HED single layer carbon rims and Onyx hubs. Uh, so I can speak of my own experience being very positive with their product. 38:46 Uh, again, made in the USA right in Minnesota, and, uh, buttery smooth and, and, and stealthy and s-- and quiet. I mean- Yes... for those that don't want the, uh, the noisy free hub, uh, this is, this is your hub. 39:04 It is completely quiet, employing, uh, something called sprags. They may have to... They're so unique they had to come up with a new word. Maybe not. Might have been a word. But pretty cool stuff. Yep. I agree. 39:22 So that wheel set, it's the Made in Minnesota Special Edition wheel set featuring HED rims, Onyx Racing hub, Berd spokes. 39:34 The MSRP is thirty-two hundred dollars, and it's a seventeen hundred gram wheel set. And, uh, it's probably less. 39:43 It's probably sixteen eighty-eight or something like that, uh, it's sixteen and change, uh, which is about eight, nine hundred grams lighter than any other carbon wheel set that you've ever seen on the interwebs. 40:01 So... 'Cause we, we test and, and ride and weigh a lot of this fat bike gear, and I have 40:09 two pair of double wall carbon rims laced to I9 hubs with traditional spokes, uh, that are twenty-four to twenty-six fifty as far as grams for the wheel set. So this is lightweight stuff. 40:26 And, uh, we're going to be doing a test to see if, uh, if the durability is there. But all reports that I've gotten from the racing scene is that they are. 40:39 Um, and we may add a, a segment here where we talk to a few people that are riding these rims. We might get George or Orla to, to talk a little bit about their experience with it. 40:50 But we really appreciate you coming and spending a little time on the Danger Gnome Podcast. Any closing thoughts before we let you go? Well, I really appreciate the opportunity. It was, uh, great talking to you. 41:03 And, uh, yeah. Thanks for, thanks for taking the time. Not a problem. Enjoy your day. Happy New Year. All right. Thanks. You too, Gomez. 41:13 The Dangerous Danger Gnome [clears throat] After Hours is made possible with support from the Bike Black Ribbon Society and Liquor Lyle's in Minneapolis, Minnesota. You're listening to Fat Bike Radio. Fat Bike Radio. 41:27 Fat- Here's Gomez and crazy ass Chris Daisy. All right. Welcome to the Danger Gnome After Hours. We have on the telephone our music director, 41:40 former, uh, Zion Cyclery chief executive officer, and all around groovy cat, Chris Daisy. Hello. How's it going? And gardener. Doing good. Master gardener. 41:56 Gardener, surfer, taking on all kinds of new hobbies. [laughs] Yeah. I haven't seen the pictures of surfing. I gotta look that up, 'cause I heard- It's more pictures of me just falling off of a surfboard. 42:08 Not real impressive [laughs] as of yet, but- All right... having a good time doing it. [laughs] So the other day, you and I were having a chat. Well, actually, you started [laughs] - Mm-hmm... the whole thing. 42:22 You start-- You sent me a text, and the text said something like... Oh, what did I just do? Are you there? Are you there, Chris? Yeah. You can hear me. There you are. All right. Sorry about that. That was me. 42:38 That was all my fault. [laughs] No problem. We'll edit that out. [laughs] So-Let me get to this text. That was, uh, what I was trying to do. When I hung up on you, I wasn't just hanging up on you. 42:51 I was trying to get to this text that [laughs] that, uh, started this whole conversation. Oh. The text says, "Peloton should start making bicycles and crush the entire industry. Change my mind." [both laughing] Yeah. 43:10 So, uh, yeah, I- uh, Peloton has such a data stream with their user group, and I know that you're gonna get into television advertising. So what do you mean by that? 43:24 [laughs] Well, this is something that I was just yelling till I was blue in the face about while I owned the shop, and, uh, just time and again seemed to fall on deaf ears. 43:38 And, you know, if you remember a couple years ago when Peloton was just super heavy advertising, you couldn't turn on the TV without seeing that, you know, Ramone song and people pedaling away, right? Right. 43:50 On NF- on NFL, uh, broadcasts I remember seeing it. So that's- Everything. It was on everything. It was, it was across the board. It was just like they advertised so heavily, and it worked. 44:02 And I mean, there's no arguing that it didn't work. If you look at them today, they're like, you know, a publicly traded company, and they were a Kickstarter company in 2012. Huh. Okay? 44:11 Their-- now their market cap is, like, forty-six billion dollars. It's, like, larger than the entire bike industry. [laughs] So... Wow. You tell me if, uh, traditional advertising works or not, you know? 44:22 It's, it's like these companies currently, the, the, the, the bike companies, it seems like, oh, their idea of advertising is putting in a two-page spread in Bicycling Magazine and, you know, hoping for the best. 44:34 Or maybe, maybe you'll see a commercial during the Tour de France when everyone who already owns a bicycle is watching, right? Right. 44:43 And that- So it's just- And those broadcasts are, are a pretty narrow slice of, of- Oh, yeah... the American market, you know? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it can be- Average Joe does not watch the Tour. No. 44:56 And, and if you, you know, like take example Trek, one of the largest bike companies in the world. 45:01 If you go up to someone who's a non-cyclist and ask them what a Trek is, they're probably gonna bring up William Shatner or maybe- [laughs]... going on a trip. They don't know. [laughs] They don't know. 45:12 Their last idea of a bicycle was the old Huffy they had when they were a kid because it just-- nobody does a good job of exposing them to how cool a bike is. I mean, look at fat bikes. 45:22 Like, ten years later, people were still walking into the shop being like, "Oh, what's that for?" I mean, that shouldn't be a question. They should have seen that on television already. 45:31 They should have seen that, "Oh, these bikes exist that I can ride in the winter? That's really cool." 45:35 Maybe the shop will get a phone call on Monday from a guy who saw it on Sunday Night Football, but it just never, ever happened. So- Okay? And so now- Where do you see Peloton going from the, 45:48 the basically a spin bike with their proprietary connectivity and, uh, lessons and clubs and that whole social- Mm-hmm... network that... Uh, where do you see them making a step into, like, real, real bikes? 46:05 Like e-bikes or, or do everything bikes, or are they gonna go-- or should they be like go into some of these- Well, let's take a look at what-... specialities?... what, what the... Sure. 46:16 Well, um, I mean, think of it just even from their name, Peloton. Uh-huh. They could be the king of group cycling. 46:22 They could have not only creating their own bikes, but they've already got their bike culture and their clientele to be like, "Oh, now instead of just being in your living room, it's seventy-five degrees out. 46:33 We're gonna have a big group ride. We're gonna..." You know? I mean, it, it's just ripe for the picking. Let's say, for instance, they just decided to, oh, I don't know, buy SRAM. [laughs] You know? 46:43 Do you think that would cause some disruption in the industry if all of a sudden- Oh, man... bike company, the current bike companies had- Or merge-... had to buy parts from, from Peloton? 46:52 [laughs] Like merge with a company like Canyon. Um. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Anything. Or just, I mean, you know, 47:00 the thing is, is they've proven that they know how to grow an audience, and that's something that I think the current bike companies have just failed to really do for decades, at least effectively. 47:11 You know, they'll tell you, "Oh, we've done this. We've done that. We've get-- you know, donated to this group that's done nothing for anybody." And [laughs] it's ridiculous. 47:19 All you need to do is put eyeballs onto bicycles, and then the butts will follow, you know? And it's just this company's done it. 47:27 They've showed you the way, and if you don't f- come out, come up, come up with an, an idea to counter that, well, all they gotta do is turn their eye on you because they've already bought Precor. 47:37 They can start to manufacture their own exercise equipment. What happens if they just decide to go after the bike industry? Right. That, and that's- I think some current CEOs would start shaking in their boots. Yeah. 47:46 That's the-- another big point that they merged with 47:51 a company that can make a much, much better exercise bicycle to connect with that Peloton software side, uh, because currently they're using-- they took this company where it's at using a bicycle that had been around for fifteen years, and every cycle studio had that bike. 48:13 Oh, absolutely. And it's a really simple, uh i- when they add that Precor, uh, computerized resistance into their program, their at home product is probably going to improve 48:29 exponentially. Mm-hmm. So- Yeah. 48:32 And let's say they, they come out with a bicycle that's got all kinds of cool built-in gadgets and gizmos and recording devices and connectivity and, you know, all of a sudden your, your real rides will count on your Peloton points or what have you. 48:45 I mean, they- Right... 48:46 they, you know, honestly, cycling as a sport would be better for it if they, if they did that because-At least then it will get the advertising and marketing it deserves as a sport, um, because everyone else has decided not to do it for decades. 49:02 And so [laughs] asleep at the wheel, I think it's gonna bite them in the butt if this company decides like, "Hey, we're just gonna crush it. We'll-- You know what? We'll just buy SRAM and QBP" [laughs] Oh, geez. 49:13 And all of a sudden they're making money in the bike industry without even making a bike yet, you know? And then where does it go from there? 49:20 So I'm just putting out-- I'm putting a shot across the bow and maybe hopefully getting a job myself at, uh, [laughs] Peloton. I don't know. Peloton's design studio. 49:30 If anyone's listening out there, uh, [laughs] he can contact me. [laughs] Well, we should send this to, to the head of marketing at Peloton, or head of- Yeah, why not? 'Cause I'm willing to help-... 49:43 the vice president in charge of buying the bike industry or, you know, new, new projects... because, I mean, it used to legitimately make me mad. 49:51 I would get angry every time I'd see the commercial because I would be like, "What if this was a bicycle commercial?" I'd be getting so many phone calls, you know, the next- Yeah... 49:59 Monday if somebody saw a commercial at this kind of magnitude for bikes like they did for this, like you said, 1960s Schwinn exerciser with some lady on a TV screen at you. Yeah. [laughs] You know? 50:11 And- But now, dude, you're- But instead, it- You're more of a free agent, you know? So- I am a free agent... you're like, you're like- I've got some new projects. Yep. You're like the, uh, like, 50:26 like an editor- editorial, uh, expert on bicycles now. You've been there. Ooh, I should get a job on cable news. [laughs] Cable news. That's kinda like... [humming] Yeah. 50:43 So, uh- Like industry analyst... in that-- How about, how about this? I have a question from a reader that he wants to, uh, he wants to know if he can run 3.8s on his stock wheels. 50:57 And he-- I-- Straight up, 80 millimeter rims, you can run 3.8s on hundreds. Eh, yeah, what? You'd be better off with bigger tires, but I've done it. I've run an Endomorph on hundreds, and it looks really fat. Um, 51:13 but he's looking for recommendations for 3.8, 26 point by-- 26 by 3.8 summer fat bike tires. So what do you got, Hot Shot? Mm-hmm. What do you think? 51:25 My favorite tire that, uh, I used to run when I was running the 26-inch fat bike was the Bontrager Rogueroo. Oh, man, yeah. Um- That's a good tire... don't know if they're still available because the- They are. 51:37 They actually-... the fly king and all that... are in stock, too. Are they? Yeah, [laughs] they're in stock, too. Ooh. 51:42 I-- Okay, let me, let me, let me throw some love towards Trek for once 'cause I'm always, you know, kinda angry at them. [laughs] But, um, no, those tires kick ass, man. 51:55 I used them on all kinds of conditions, and short of, like, needing full studs, uh, you know, u- unless you're, you were just riding glare ice, terrible trails, they rocked on everything. 52:08 Those things were sandpaper, and they were light. Yeah. And I think they came in at 3.8, if I remember. Um- They're, they're a skinny 3.8. They're, you know, they're- Yeah. 52:18 They were fast, and they were just an all-around great tire. I really like that tire. I wish they would make them in a 27/5- Yeah... since they made the conversion of- Hundreds of, hundreds of tiny bristling, uh, knobs. 52:30 You know, low- Yeah... but, but very, very, uh, very, very grippy tire that rolls really fast. Mm-hmm. I would, I would add- No, those were great... I would add a Schwalbe, uh, Jumbo Jim to that list for easy rolling, 52:48 just enough traction to go fast, uh, on dirt, and no penalty for riding gravel or, uh, or pavement. 52:57 Um, Husker Du is- I had a pretty bad, uh, I had a pretty bad wipeout on a pair of Jumbo Jims one time, so I'm not gonna comment. [laughs] Yeah. And, and I suppose you could add- [laughs]... 53:07 what's, what's the Kenda tire that is, uh, super low-knobbed? Oh, maybe it's not Kenda. Oh, those, uh, was it the sport, um, what was the name of that tire? 53:19 We sold a ton of them back in the day because they were like the only lightweight tire. Juggernauts. Juggernauts. That's, that's the- Uh, yeah. Yeah. They were, uh, not the best in terms of traction, I'd say- Yeah... 53:31 but they were light, [laughs] so you had to kind of trade off. And then I, I run Husker Du's quite a bit in the summer- Mm-hmm... but you have to be careful with those tires 'cause 53:43 they say only winter use, and I've seen some big holes punched in, uh, in those tires by pointy sticks. Yeah. Travis had one. I had one. But now we have big plugs. 54:00 I have a plug in my Dillinger 4 right now that I'm about to stud- Make a really-... amid studding. So, uh, yeah, that's- Plug talk. [laughs] So that's, that's the recommendations. 54:16 A Husker, a Rogueroo, though. That's-- If you could get Rogueroo front and rear, that would be a bitchin' setup. 54:24 But I'm gonna throw a curve at you and, uh, for as far as an answer and say that 27.5 rims with a 50-millimeter 54:35 wide rim with th- 3.8s, 27.5 by 3.8s is my favorite summer setup. And- Hmm... you know. I could see that. That rolls really nice. So- Mm-hmm... 54:51 a last thing on my list to talk to you about is, you know, youHave an S-Works Fat Boy, the last of the bid block Hemi Interceptor best- Mm-hmm... 55:08 may- best big box fat bike ever made maybe out of the big brands. It probably was, but, uh, [laughs] 55:21 to be honest, in my quest to stay current and, uh, and because, you know, uh, I was a bike shop owner and always could play that game of sell your bike every year type of deal [laughs] Yeah. 55:34 I unfortunately let the Interceptor go. Uh, I probably should have kept that bike, um, at least and, and bought a second fat bike because I'll probably never be able to replicate that. 55:46 And especially after I stripped all my stuff off of it and kind of rearranged it, I think out the door the thing was like sub twenty-three pounds when I sold it. Uh, 55:57 but honestly I wanted to go twenty-seven point five wheel to check that out. 56:01 I wanted to go with a little bit more of a rugged setup in terms of wheels 'cause as great as those heads are, they're super light carbon, uh, I did crack one of them [laughs] right off the bat. 56:15 And I was always like, "Eh, this is my long-term sort of solution for wheels. I don't know." And so I sold the bike and built up a really cool Beargrease and the rest is sort of history [laughs]. A Salsa Beargrease. 56:30 It's an interesting choice. It's probably the, uh, the second-best ever made. But, you know, if they just- Well, you know-... 56:39 if they would, they would be a tie if they just said, "Well, we're not gonna make the Beargrease anymore [laughs] 'cause that made that S-Works- Well, you know what though-... that much more precious, right? 56:48 Does not mean- Potentially, but what, what got me though was like what-- One, one day when I was test riding the, uh, Beargrease just in the back parking lot of the shop and 56:59 I went to like pull a wheelie and realized just how much shorter the, you know, chainstays were and how much more lively and poppy the front end was- Uh-huh... compared to- Yeah... my S-Works. 57:09 'Cause the S-Works at the time, like that thing came with like, I don't know, like a hundred and fifty mil stem [laughs] or something like- Really? Not really, but close. 57:19 [laughs] I mean, it was like, it was kind of like old school like- We haven't had a hundred and fifty millimeter stem in fifteen years, bro [laughs]. I know. That's a, it's a, it's a bi- that's an inside bike joke- Oh... 57:31 but you know what I'm saying. I mean, it was, it was not the current like stubby things you see on bikes today. Uh-huh. It was like, okay, something was off. 57:39 And you could just tell it was a few years sort of behind where the industry had been going and, you know, hence they just completely stopped making them, so [laughs] I don't know. 57:52 But yeah, I, I wanted to kinda go a little more current and see what the twenty-seven point five ride was about. But unfortunately then I couldn't get my Rosa tires anymore, so- Yeah... probably a double whammy. Yeah. 58:04 But whatevs. You know, but there's- Live and learn... there, there's Dillinger's, which roll great, and there's- Yeah... Maxis, and there's a whole bunch of tires. But, uh, so what's your- I mean, sure. 58:19 They, uh- What's your verdict on twenty-seven point five? Um, I seem to like it. 58:25 I mean, it's, you know-- The hard part is, is unless you're gonna conduct a fatbike.com official test situation, it's hard to really, you know, know [laughs]. I'm not like comparing my Strava times or anything like that. 58:39 Yeah. But I mean, the overall feel, I like the overall ride and feel of it, you know. I think it's, uh, it's, it's not a bad way to go. I think, I think they're both- And it seems to be the- I think they're both good, 58:50 but I don't see- Mm-hmm... I don't see any big deal about rolling the different diameter because depending on what tire you put on there, that diameter is not very much different than your twenty-six, you know? 59:08 True. Yeah. I don't know. If you're on the big- It's- If you're on the biggest size, then, then yes, then it's a bit taller than even the tallest twenty-six inch by a hundred millimeter wide setup. 59:21 But- Are, are you suggesting that we could all just be victims to bicycle marketing? Yeah. Yeah. I'm s- I'm saying that it's, it's- [laughs]... that it's, it's no big deal. 59:31 It's- You people out there that have a twenty-six inch wheel bike, if you, if you have an S-Works Fat Boy [laughs], keep that fucker. And you'd probably be able to run- We, we could have just kept-... 59:41 twenty-seven point five by three point eight if you want 'cause it's not that much difference. There's just very little, very little, uh... It changes your footprint. Okay. You know? 59:54 So the moral of the story is you probably would've sold more tires and wheels if you would've put on a fat bike commercial instead of coming up with a new stupid wheel size. 1:00:02 [laughs] Well, it was, it was- To tie it back into our other conversation [laughs]. I, I think it was a smart move by Trek because they differentiated themselves and steered the market, you know? And identi- Sure. Yep. 1:00:19 They were steering the market [laughs]... and identified, identified who the leader was and who the followers were. Yeah. Man. [laughs] Right? 1:00:28 So figure out- No, I'm not saying that was a bad move in his, you know, or anything, but, uh, I just think, like my-- to my point, uh, dollars spent sometimes, uh, exposing new riders to bicycles would not be a bad idea. 1:00:39 Oh, way to bring it around, boy. Way to- It's not like changing standards and- Way to tie it in a knot with your, with your, uh- Mm-hmm [laughs]... original, original, uh, editorial. 1:00:51 Should it, should-- How should we, should we classify it? Drinking water. Uh, my analysis? Oh, there you go. Market analysis [laughs]. 1:01:04 So-Chris designed our new jerseys and he's been sending me stuff. He's-- 1:01:14 If you have like a race flyer that you need or a jersey to be designed or, uh, a sticker idea- Yeah... Chris is your man. Sure. Chris Davey Art and Design over there on the Facebook. Right on. 1:01:31 I'll put the link in the show notes. Thanks for being on the Danger Gnome after hours. Absolutely. My pleasure. All right, let's ride bikes and stuff. All right, brother. Yeah. It's gonna snow six inches. Oh. 1:01:48 So this week. Oh, really? Yeah. Nice. So- Well, shoot waves are up right now. I'm going surfing this afternoon. [laughs] All right. So surfing and fat biking in the same month, man, it's pretty sweet, I gotta say. 1:01:59 It's crazy. So let's bring Travis back and wrap this bad boy up. Travis, that was a hell of a show, huh? Yeah. What a great show, man. 1:02:11 That sounds like some, uh, really nice all Minnesota made in USA wheels going on there. And you just can't, uh... You just, you just can't, uh, design an Android like Crazy Chris Davey, can you? Not yet anyway. No. 1:02:28 We don't have the technology. So- Well, only, only aliens do. We should probably, uh, just close the show with saying swallow, man's favorite bird. Check us out on Instagram @fatbikesum. Mine's the raven for the record. 1:02:47 [laughs] Bird man. That's bird man. All right. Adios, amigos, till next time. Adios, amigos. 1:02:54 [outro music]
