Transcript 0:00 [upbeat music] I'm a UP boy, UP boy, and I'm feelin' good. 0:16 Livin' in the heartland of the northern timberwood. Welcome to Fat Camp show number 35. Fatbike.com presents Fat Camp, a more or less monthly podcast covering different technical aspects of fat and plus bikes. 0:35 Look for all our shows at fat-bike.com/radio or subscribe to our feed on iTunes. Got a Western plow, I'm a DTO. She don't move too much slow, but she really go. 1:01 Husqvarna chainsaw. I'm revvin' up a brand new Stihl. Welcome to Fat Camp number 35, folks. Just in case you, uh, missed our, uh, previous podcast, this is number 35. 1:19 You can listen to one through 34 if you'd like to, but, um, I'm not sure that would be as entertaining as listening to this one- [laughs]... today. Anyways, I'm Andy. 1:31 I'm here with my f- good friend Ken, and we are the Fat Camp podcast, which is a podcast about... The technical aspects of fat and plus bikes. Yes. Excellent. But sometimes we vary into lots of other topics. Right. 1:42 Exactly. Exactly. Um, so anyway, um, we have an agenda put together recently. We're gonna hammer through that agenda, and we're gonna talk to you about, um, some stuff that's goin' on in our world, um, I guess. 1:56 I- do you wanna- Yeah, just get people caught up- Yeah... 'cause we haven't had- Yeah... our show in a while, and- Right. At the- We're- Yeah... this morning we recorded the Oregon Timber Trail one, which was 34. Yeah. 2:07 And now this afternoon [laughs] we're recording, uh, the next one. Yeah. Um, so we're kinda trying to get back on track after a busy summer where we kinda got away from producing these. Right. 2:15 We got some recent, um, news to put out there. Ken's got a crap ton of... He's got a big, huge box full of tires he's gonna talk about. 2:26 Um, we do wanna get into his most recent, um, achievement, completion of the Margie Gesick. Yes. Yes. Yep. Um, uh, maybe talk a little 29 plus love, and, uh, what, 2:41 keep riding your tires, let's just put it that way, at the end. [laughs] All right? So we'll be right back talking about some tires. [laughs] What else do we talk about on this show? All right. We'll be right back. 2:51 I'm a UP boy, UP boy. Fish pole in one hand, brook trout in the other. I'm gonna live, I'm gonna live, I'm gonna live my plan. 3:12 All right. Welcome back. That was some, those were some good tunes there, DJ KBS. [laughs] Um, hey, let's talk, let's get right into, um, some tire talk here with k- the Kenda Booster. What's goin' on? 3:23 What's Kenda got goin' on? Well, yeah, so I guess kinda to back up a little more from that, um, we're kinda at the end of, I don't know what you wanna call it, uh, like, industry show, you know, period. 3:37 Christmas for bikes. We, well, we had Eurobike earlier. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then we got Interbike. You know, we had Sea Otter, you know, months and months and months ago. Mm-hmm. 3:44 This is kind of, you know, the other season of where we get new stuff coming out, and- Right... you know, um, it doesn't, there hasn't been a huge volume of stuff, but it's been kinda interesting to see. 3:54 There's been some interesting stuff that's trickled out over the course of the year. Okay. Um, so- Why, why do you think there's not a lot of new stuff? We just have good stu- you know. 4:05 Well, I think, I mean, a lot, in a lot of cases, the industry... I mean, the, the easy gains, the low-hanging fruit of what could be improved as far as fat biking- Yeah... 4:14 and plus bike stuff goes, we've, we've kinda gotten through that. Okay. And now things are starting to settle in, and people are either refining products, um, and offering up sort of the next generation- Okay... 4:25 you know, for the, like, the committed companies. Like, I'm just thinking of, like, Salsa. You know, I don't remember the details too much, but they, I think, updated the Beargrease- Right... recently. Yep. 4:33 And, you know, it's like, it's good to see a big company like that having a flagshif- you know, sha- flagship, you know, fat bike where they're refining the design and really kinda keeping it as good as it possibly can, you know, based upon what current technology is. 4:45 You know, with the, the tweaks for 27.5-inch wheels and some stuff like that. Yeah. So, you know, that's kinda the refinement end of things. 4:51 And then we're starting to see, like, companies filling niches that have now been identified now that we kinda had this, you know, over the last few years, these splashes of new stuff coming out. 5:03 Um, we kinda ended up having, you know, just a ton of just fat bike stuff in general for, like, 26-inch, and carbon frames, and all this stuff a couple years ago. 5:11 Then things kinda went tubeless, and then 27.5 came out, and we had kind of a flush of, you know, stuff in that kinda world. Now we're starting to see, like, the 27 and a half, you know, inch tire world kind of fill out. 5:25 Um- Yeah... you know, we're starting to get more tire options. You know, it's the kind of the, that's one of the big reasons why I've kinda held out from 27.5 is 'cause I, I didn't really like the tire options out there. 5:34 They didn't really fit my riding style, and we're starting to see some options that fill that in. Well, and is that kinda similar to what plus did? Yeah. You had a couple- Yep... tire choices, 5:44 and now not only do you have a plethora of tire choices, you have a plethora of tire sizes- Yep... to still plus out. Exactly. And, and- Does that make sense? To still s- [laughs] To, to still plus out? Okay. 5:55 Um, but no, a good, that, that kinda gets us right to this Kenda Booster. Okay. 5:59 Um, there's, there's the Booster, and there's the Regolith, are two tires that got introduced over the course of this, you know, like, summer-... 6:06 ish Right And like the Booster's an interesting tire just because it, I hate to put it this way, but the tread design looks pretty similar to, um, like a Maxxis Chronicle. 6:15 Okay Um, a little bit deeper tread it looks like- Yeah... in the middle A little beefier Yeah. But I mean, it's, it's kind of that same type of thing where it's gonna be fast rolling, but it's got some side knobs. 6:24 Okay Similar kind of trail layout, uh- Right... uh, tread layout. Um, but they're offering it in like a pretty wide swath of tires. Yeah, that was my next question. What can I get it in? Yeah. 6:34 So like in the 27 and a half, you know, you can get it in your traditional mountain bike sizes, the 22 and 2.4, but then you can also get it in a 2.6- Oh... um, and 2.8. Oh, sweet Yeah. 6:44 And then if you look at the 29-inch world, they're offering it [laughs] in 2.4 inch, 2.6, and 2.8 inch. Oh, nice So you know, 6:53 it, the, it just, it's nice to see this spread for what looks to be like a pretty decent tread design. Yeah, it seems like that 2.8 gap is getting filled up too. E- exactly. 7:04 Yeah People are throwing, you know, 2.6s- Yep... is, is, is good, but now we're even getting more 2.8. That's good. Yeah. And it, you know, it looks like a- Okay tire though... yeah, yeah. You know? 7:14 I mean, it's, you know, it, it doesn't have me jumping up for joy like this, I think is gonna be the greatest tire in the world. 7:18 However, I just think it's a, it's an awesome option and it's really cool they're offering the j- different size spectrum. Do you think it'll be a heavy tire? I don't know. I mean, some of- Okay... 7:27 Kenda's tires, like I'm blanking out on what the name- The Jugganaut... yeah, that thing's light as can be. Right. Right So I mean, who knows how burly they're gonna make this thing. Okay. 7:34 Nice Um, but yeah, then there's another tire, the, the Regolith Pro. Um- [laughs]... and that's, that's a lot gnarlier looking tire. I, I'll be, uh... you know, I hate to compare these things, but the- Right... 7:44 the tread layout is kind of similar to, uh, uh, Schwalbe Nobby Nic. Yeah This is also in the 2.6 inch side. Ah. It's a little more open- Yeah... than the Nobby Nic though. 7:54 So you know, I, I could see it clearing better in mud and maybe some things like that. So you know, I think it's gonna offer some other possibilities. So you know, they got a more aggressive tire. 8:02 They got what looks to be a pretty quick rolling tire. You know, some- Yeah... some really good options all around. 8:07 Do you think, and I'm just gonna throw this out there, that it's becoming, I don't know, more and more common to have a slightly more aggressive tire than it is, um, common to have a tire that potentially can roll faster with side knobs? 8:27 Um, I, I mean, I think it depends on where you're talking about. 8:30 I think we've started to get some really good options in the more aggressive plus tires and stuff like that, whereas a lot of them initially were pretty minimally knobbed and pretty light. 8:39 You know, they were trying to keep them... They're trying to make them like 2.4 inch tire weights, but they were, you know, three-inch tires. So they kind of paired off aspects of them. 8:49 Gotcha Um, whereas now we're starting to get a lot more tires with some decent knobs and more, um, durable casings and stuff. 8:57 And yeah, they weigh more, but they make it a much more ver- you know, versatile tire that's gonna hold up in a, you know, a chunkier environment. Yeah. Um, I, and I guess the reason for even asking that question was, 9:11 I w- it, I don't know. Is there a, a change in philosophy of I don't wanna... I wanna have a chunkier tire 'cause it's gonna be more fun rather than gonna be more fast? Yeah. No, I think- Okay... 9:25 well, and the thing is, you look at most, most modern frames, like frames that are being produced this year, if they, if, if they've been updated recently, they're gonna fit a 2.6 inch tire, you know? Oh, really? Yeah. 9:35 It's like they... you know, normal, quote-unquote, "mountain bikes". Okay So you know, you've had a bunch of... and those are some burly bikes. I don't, I don't know how else- Right... to put it. 9:43 I mean, it's like you can, you can get some, you know, pretty full suspension. You know, you can... It's like almost everything's fitting like 2.6, which I s- consider to be like gateway plus, you know, tire. 9:53 [laughs] Gateway plus, yes. Um, and you know, and they'll... like a lot of times if it's 29er, it'll fit 27 and a half plus. Yeah You know, and has the geometry adjustment type stuff so it's not gonna suck, you know? 10:03 Yeah It's not gonna drop the bottom bracket too much. Right Um, so you know, there's a lot of really good bikes that are out there right now that are some big hit bikes that you can run in this plus world. 10:14 So I think that's why that we're seeing this filling out of more aggressive tires to kind of complement what those guys might wanna do. Cool You know, 'cause like when, you know, when I was out, uh, west in Oregon, 10:27 there were some trails out there, like in the Bend area, which at that point were just kind of like moon dust dry, a lot of sand and stuff, where I wouldn't wanna run less than a 2.6 inch tire. Oh. 10:35 But I would like to have some suspension too, so you can really bomb stuff. 10:39 Gotcha So you know, I can see where, you know, especially like when I was just noting with the Kenda thing, I could see where like a 2.8 might be perfect on the front and a 2.6 in the rear or what, and you're like- Oh, wow... 10:49 and you can kind of tweak it and really- Yeah, you can really dial in what you want... yeah. Yeah. That's rad, so. Oh. Well, good. 10:55 Uh, there's a link down in the show notes, um, if you wanna check out those Kenda products. Um, something that actually we're staring at right now is a trailer. Yeah. 11:04 Um, let's talk about the trailer that's in front of us right now, and then we'll talk about the- Yeah... one that we wish was in front of us maybe. 11:09 [laughs] Yeah, this, this, uh, weekend I'm gonna be writing a sort of initial look at, it's, uh, c- a company called QuietKat. Um, they're kind of- Meow, meow... 11:19 [laughs] they're kind of like a, an e-bike, e-fat bike company that markets towards hunters. Okay And this is kind of an accessory- Oh... for their bikes. The... wait, 11:32 an e-bike fat bike company that caters towards- Hunters... hunters. Yeah. Okay So I mean- Good. Hey... I to- I totally think this is a legit niche for the fat bike world. I mean, this isn't... 11:45 I'm not a hunter, but if I was a hunter, this is probably how I would hunt, where, you know, what these, you know, basically these dudes can do is they can get out to their- Yeah... 11:53 preferred hunting spot, and then they've got a good, quiet, mechanized way to get, you know- Right... their, their kill back. Yeah And so, you know- Or to get shotYeah. 12:05 [laughs] So this trailer's basically made to haul dead carcasses out of the woods. Nice. Yeah. Okay. But it's, it's a similar design. 12:16 You know, it's got a lot of shades of, like, the Bob trailer, which I've, I've had a Bob for years. Okay. Probably a decade. Yeah. Um, so it's got a rear suspension set up on it. 12:24 It's really fun to ride behind Bob with a chainsaw in it. Yeah. But this, this case, it's got a four-inch rear tire. Um, it can fit any basically size rear spacing. Gotcha. So it's pretty versatile that way. 12:35 Is that a 24-inch or a 20-inch? I think it's a 20... Yeah, it's a 20-by-four inch- Okay... rear tire. Cool. And it's, it's got a, a Kenda Kruzade. 12:44 We're, like, looking at it right now, just, like, making sure that we get every detail into this podcast. Well, no, because I'm gonna do an introduction anyway. 12:51 But I guess the, the big thing that's cool about it is it's cheap. Yeah. Um, you know, I feel like that's really, to me, that's the big selling point of this. You know, a lot of these trailers are expensive. 13:01 I don't remember exactly what I paid for my Bob, but I remember it was around, like, 350, 400 bucks. Right. And that, that's a really... You know, and it's, it's worth every cent. Yeah. 13:10 You know, it's a quality, quality trailer- Yeah... that, you know, people are using to travel all over the world. Yep, my Kid Burley was the same thing. Yep. Yeah. Yep. This is not of that same quality level. Okay. 13:20 But it costs 270 bucks. Right. And, you know, I could think you can get a lot of utility out of this. Is- that's what I'm gonna be checking out, see how well it actually holds up. Right. 13:30 'Cause, you know, they skimped on a few things to get it down to 270 bucks. Yeah. But, you know, I still think there's a lot of utility. 13:37 And depending on how much you really plan on using a trailer, if you're not planning on doing international travel- Sure... do you really need to end up having all the extra features and money? And it's like- Right... 13:46 you know, if you're gonna do like I am, where this is gonna be a great thing to, like, haul firewood down to the beach to go, you know, camp- Right... you know, down at the [laughs] lake. Yeah, yeah. 13:55 Um, or go do, like, shorter bike packing things- Right... where you wanna haul a whole bunch of shit, including a cooler. Right. Um, you know- Well, we're gonna be testing it out- Yeah... 14:04 for the Sub 24 we're doing pretty soon here. Yep. We're just gonna do a, a quick overnight and back, and that'll be perfect to try it out. Exactly, or, you know, hauling a chainsaw or, or- Yeah... trail tools- Yeah... 14:13 out to end up doing trail work. 14:15 You know, there's a lot of good scenarios I could see for this, um, 'cause I've been wanting to have some sort of fat trailer, especially for the winter, because there's a lot of times that, you know, we'll have a bunch of trees drop and it's a, it's a big ask for the groomer to clear the trees as well as groom. 14:30 Mm-hmm. You know, that, that can be a real... You know, that can make it go from being a doable project to an undoable project. Yeah. 14:37 So, you know, having this tool should allow me to get out there and clear trail also in the winter more easily. Yeah, with that four-inch tire on the back. But there's an article at fatbike.com- There will be, yeah... 14:47 you know, preview. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And then, um, there'll be a follow-up, and we're gonna test it out, you know, see how it goes. Yep. But another trailer comes out, though, too. Yeah, and I... 14:56 This, this is kind of on the other end of the spectrum of, you know, badass kind of trailer options. Yeah. Um- This is the $400 version. Yeah, this is the Burley Coho XC. Right. 15:06 And it's, comes stock with a regular mountain bike sized rear tire. But you can get it up to a plus inch tire, three-inch tire. Okay. Um, that's a... You gotta pay extra money for that. It's, like, 90 bucks more. Yeah. 15:17 But once again, it looks like it fits all size rear spacings, uh, so a really adaptable setup. 15:23 It, you know, can fit, you know, quick release, regular, like, size bikes, you know, all the way up to, you know, fat bikes and stuff. So it, it just, it looks like a, the new generation of Bob trailer- Yeah... 15:35 with, like, kind of modernized tire. Kickstand. Yeah. Kickstand r- Just- Uh, easy release, you know? Yeah, just a lot of cool features. Right. Right. 15:42 Um, and, you know, and Burley's got a good history of making solid stuff. Yeah, so if, if Burley, you're listening to this, send us one. [laughs] You know? I actually think Uncle Gomez has got one coming his way. Sweet. 15:52 Yeah, I think, I, I think I ended up hearing something about that. So that, I think that's really cool. I'm- Awesome... I think that's a, that's a really good option for, uh, riders. Yeah. Cool, cool. 16:01 So Kenda, couple trailers. Um, we're gonna take a quick break and be right back with, uh, the test hoppers. 16:10 [upbeat music] I'm a UP boy, 16:27 UP boy, and I'm feeling good. And we are back. H- uh, we for- we failed to mention that w- the, um, adult beverage that we're drinking are coming straight from glasses that are meaningful to both of us. 16:42 Yes, victory cups. Uh, yeah. So we've been- Yeah, I'm drinking out of my Michigan Coast to Coast Gravel Grinder mug. Uh, 212 miles. Yep. And I'm doing- Fourth place, that was my spring. Whoo. Oh, that's right. 16:55 That's right, fourth place. Yeah. Dang. I'm pretty stoked about that. And I am drinking out of my only 100-mile finish, uh, Lumberjack 100, barely. Yep, 2016. Oh, gosh. June 18th. Don't let me think about it again. 17:10 [laughs] Jeez. So anyways, uh, the UPS man has stopped by, uh, Ken's house, and he brought just loads of stuff. 17:18 Yeah, so besides the trailer, which I'm, you know, super excited about, I have got all sorts of wheel stuff that I'm just, like, out of my gourd on. Yeah, this is the... 17:28 We got a 20-minute intro to what he's gonna be testing here and coming up soon. What do you got? So, so let's start with the one oddball, which is the, uh, Terrene Johnny Five. Yeah. 17:38 So, um, Gomez has already posted a first look- Oh, yeah... at this tire on the- Yeah... 17:43 on the website, and given all the dimensions and all that kind of stuff, but I mean, long story short, this is a direct competitor to Bud and Lou. Hm. 17:51 Um, you know, it's supposed to end up sort of rivaling that, and they're almost identical in size. You know, like, they're measuring out on a 100 mil rim, basically 4.8 inch inches. Yeah. Um, real aggressive tread. 18:03 Um, you know, so I'm, I'm super interested to get on those. I can't wait to- Yeah... try them out. I'm-I'm, I'm gonna mount them up at some point soon. I gotta do a little wheel repair before I do that. Right. 18:15 Broken spoke. Um- [laughs] Yeah, I didn't realize I had it until I like just took the, the wheels off of my, my like my yellow snow bike, my deep s- Yeah... deep winter snow bike. Yeah. 18:26 Uh, which I hadn't touched for a while, and I put on 29 plus wheels and I was like, "Oh, got a broken spoke on my 26er wheels [laughs]-" [laughs] "... my fat wheels." 18:33 So gotta get those going and then that's gonna- I'm gonna start doing a little bit of beach riding. But you can't really tell a whole lot with- Right... beach riding. It's, it's not the same whatsoever at all. Yeah. 18:41 You get some nuance of, okay, how much float does it have, how much grip, but it's just- it's not like with snow. Okay. So- So it's gonna be a while before we- you- Yeah... get to go down that road... 18:50 I don't expect anything from me on the, the Johnny Five soon. Right. Because it's just gonna be... 18:55 I mean, if I, if I feel like I start to get a good impression of what it can do, 'cause we happen to get some conditions that allow that, I'm gonna write something about it, but I just don't think I'm gonna be lucky enough to get those conditions soon. 19:07 Right. So that's, that's the tire I'm super excited about. I just- Yeah... it's probably more of a midwinter thing. Approachable for a ton of people, you know? Yeah. Yep. 19:15 But then you've got, you know, the ugly stepsister wheel. Yeah. So I've been kinda holding off on the 27 and a half fat stuff just because- Why?... 19:25 um, most of the tire options were way too small for my size and where I ride and how I ride. Right. 19:34 So, you know, it's like there, there's some times where like with spring snow when you kinda get the freeze thaw cycle and you hit it right when it's really hard, where having a four-inch tire is great, but I mean, like a lot... 19:43 Like, if you look at those, um, the Maxxis Minions, they measure out like something like 3.7 inches- No kidding... on a lot of- Okay... you know, carbon rims and stuff. It's like they're a puny little tire. 19:53 Um, and they just, you know, unless you have those super hard packed, you know, conditions, spring snow kinda conditions- Yeah... 19:59 that's just too small a tire for me, and I can't, I can't stay [laughs] on top of the snow enough to like have that be functional. Okay. So there weren't... 20:07 I mean, there was like basically what it was the Narwhal and the Barbegazi. Yeah. Barbegazi is a little bit faster rolling. The Narwhal is a bigger knobbed tire. 20:16 Those were the options as far as anything bigger than four inch by, you know, 27.5. Okay. 20:22 But luckily we're starting to get some other options now starting to open up, which we'll get into some specifics on, but, uh, Uncle Gomez sent me a pair of the Pub 27.5 inch carbon wheels. You know- Cool... DT 350 hubs. 20:37 Um, you know- What's the width on the rims? Uh, I don't remember if it's 70 or 75. Okay. I think it's 75. All right. Um, a little bit narrower than the set that you've got. Yeah. 20:45 Um, and I know you've been really happy with, you know, your Pub wheels. Pretty much so, yeah. Yeah. It's like, and it's, it's, it's a super compelling, you know, product. 20:54 It's like I can already tell you right now, I mean, tubeless, whoop- Yeah... no problem whatsoever at all. I've mounted up a few tires on them and it's just like bam, right in, no fiddling at all. Huh. 21:03 Um, so that's super nice. Weight's pretty decent. Um, so I'm, I'm excited for that. Mm-hmm. Um, you know- Yeah... so that, that's kinda forming the basis for it, and then I got a bunch of tires to kinda go with those. 21:16 So I got a pair of four-inch, uh, Terrene Cake Eaters. Okay. So I'm excited about that because I've now got, you know, a 27.5 four inch. Last year I tested a 26 by four inch, so I've got a direct comparison, 21:32 same exact tires- Right... 26, 27.5, and I can just kinda play around with that and just kinda see what- Yeah... what it does float wise for me. Okay. 21:39 Um, then I also have, um, the, uh, the f- uh, 3.8 inch by 27.5 Vanhalegas. Okay. 45 North tire, which just got released. Yep. So that's, that's gonna be another four-inch tire that I've been really wanting to get on. 21:57 Is it a four... Is it a 3.8 inch tire? Is it a four-inch tire? Well, see, I haven't actually mounted up and taken dimensions yet- Okay... 22:03 but I did kinda put the two tires before mounting them, you know, like they're just kinda rolled up. Mm-hmm. And the 3.8 inch Vanhalega casing is probably a 22:15 centimeter m- pr- probably not quite that much, probably like seven millimeters or something wider bead to bead than the four-inch Cake Eater. Okay. So I don't, you know, [laughs] the, their listed sizes are not right. 22:30 Okay. Um, and I, I don't, I haven't had them mounted up really and taken measurements to really know who is, who is the one that's off. Right. Okay. [laughs] Um- Huh... 22:40 but it's just, it's, it's an interesting tread design, a little more aggressive than the Cake Eater- Mm-hmm... in that four-inch size. So I think, you know, that'll, I... 22:47 It looks like it's gonna be a fairly, it's gonna be one of the higher volume four-inch options. Okay. 22:51 So that, it starts to get in more into the realm of a workable size for somebody my size and weight and riding conditions. 22:58 But then the thing that, the tire that I'm most excited about in the 27.5 is a pair of 4.5 inch Cake Eaters. Wow. That was the one that I mounted up as soon as I got this box- Yeah... 23:08 'cause I wanted to see how big they really were. Because like I said, the, the thing that's been keeping me out of 27.5 fat- Is the-... is the lack of big options. Right. And this is a big option. 23:19 You know, it's like this is a true 4.5 inch tire. Would it fit on most fat bikes? That's the thing that I'm gonna be really interested with, that I haven't played around with. I- [laughs] I know- I'm sure it'll fit... 23:30 it's a big diameter wheel. On your triple B, though. Yeah, I, I- Yeah, for sure... for sure have a bike that'll fit it. Yeah. But it's, it's a really big diameter. 23:38 Um, like when I hold it up next to my 29 plus wheels- Yeah... it's way bigger than they are, like diameter wise. Oh, really? Yeah, it's like an inch bigger in diameter. Okay. 23:46 Uh, so I gotta take some real specific measurements. I know I've got a bike that'll run it, but, um, it's not- I might not have a bike that'll run it, though. Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 23:56 No, I th- actually in your case, I think you'd be all right because you've got sliders on the rear, so you could kick that rear wheel all the way out back- Yeah... and then you'd have probably enough height to handle it. 24:05 Okay. Um, and then most people's forks can handle it no problem because, you know, you have a suspension corrected fork on most fat bikes right now. Yeah. Okay. So they're plenty tall that way. All right. 24:14 Um, and, you know, so it's not, it's not crazy wide, it's just it's a really big diameter. Okay. 24:18 So, um, and it s- it seems like, and once again, I, this is me talking without having really done my research, but it seems like the knobs are taller- Mm-hmm... 24:28 on the tire.Um, like the 26 by four-inch Cake Eaters seemed like it had fairly short knobs in the middle, and then it's like I wanna say, I wanna say they were like four millimeters or shorter in the middle, and they went up to like six millimeters on the like the side knobs or something like that. 24:41 It was... I'm not positive on that. But this like I ended up throwing a like, you know, some calipers on this one, and it had deeper than four millimeter center knobs. Okay. 24:51 Um, so it's like I think that it's kind of a more aggressive Cake Eater, um- Wow. Yeah, so I think what, what, what I'm gonna be interested in this, I'm... 24:59 It's a long way of saying this, but I'm gonna be interested to see how this compares to a 26 by 4.8 inch tire. Okay. Because, you know, it's obviously smaller in width, but it's bigger in diameter. Sure. 25:10 So that's gonna end up helping out the float, and this is kind of the Bontrager theory which, um, you know, they talked about on one of our earlier shows when we interviewed- Yeah... the Trek guys. Yeah. 25:22 Um, like Travis Brown, and he was saying that, you know, you can add volume more efficiently by going with a bigger diameter than a, a wider width. 25:29 That's why like when you see old-school tractors and stuff, they had these big, tall, skinny tires. Yeah. So, you know, it helps so that it keeps your rolling resistance low. 25:37 You still end up having really good kind of like cornering, railing traction. Yeah. Um, but you still y- but you get benefit of more float. Okay. So it's, it's a, it's a... 25:46 It potentially could be a more efficient way to do that, and that's, that's what 27.5 really excites me about. These tires that have been short and skinny- Mm-hmm... 25:56 you know, they, yeah, that's really good for summer riding. If I was riding my fat bike on dirt, yeah, I want a short p- low profile tire, so I kind of minimize the bounce. 26:05 But when it comes to winter, I want float, you know [laughs]. [laughs] I want traction, you know- Mm-hmm... 26:09 those kind of things in a lot of conditions, but I still want the bike to roll efficiently, and this is a very compelling concept if you can actually get the big diameter wheels. So you have 26:22 a four-inch, a 3.8-inch, a four and a half inch by 27.5- [laughs]... to test out. Two of them are Cake Eaters. One's Van Halga. You're gonna strap all this stuff onto a, um... Framed makes those wheels, right? Yeah. 26:37 The, the Pub. Yep, the Pub wheel set. The carbon wheel set, yeah. You've got a lot of work to do this sum- this winter. Yeah, no, I'm super stoked. Yeah. And, you know, like basically I, I would... 26:46 Just before we started recording this, I was just airing up the, the four-inch Cake Eaters on those 27.5 wheels. Okay. I'm gonna throw that on my yellow snow bike- Okay... which I've right now got my drop bars on. 26:58 It's a Frankenstein bike. Yeah. It, it's totally got a complex right now, can't figure out its identity. Wow. Yeah. Cool. So, you know, it's like I'm gonna start rocking those already. 27:06 I'm really looking forward to ripping around on it, just getting some dirt time to see how it all feels. Yeah. And then, you know, yeah, I'm gonna mess around with the Van Halgas a little bit too. Yeah. 27:14 Um, probably won't touch the 4.5s until we actually have some snow. Yeah. But, um... Um, well, and you kind of took a week off, so now you can get back into riding it. What was the week off for? [laughs] Yeah. 27:26 Yeah, so it's like I'm kind of taking a little, uh, break in my season right now. A little reprieve. Yeah, 'cause I ended up doing the Margie Gesick, uh, 100 last weekend. Well, okay. 27:35 So, um, Gomez just interviewed, uh, Todd, was it? Yeah, Todd Poquet. Okay. Up there. 27:41 So, uh, Fat Bike Radio, I, I didn't get to listen to it yet, but I'm sure that that interview talks about what, what the heck's going on with that race. Yeah, yeah. Okay. 27:49 It was an easy year, but- What was your take on it? Oh, it's, I mean, it's a, it's an awesome race. Okay. 27:55 You know, I'd recommend a lot of people do it if you're burly, but don't- Would you recommend a lot of people not do it, though, too? [laughs] Yeah. It's like if you're not burly, don't even think about it. 28:03 It's, it is a really, really, really, really hard race. Okay. I mean, it's... There's, there's just no getting around it. Okay. Um, the concept of it I absolutely love. 28:11 I mean, that, that is an area that, um, has got some just amazing trail. And you get to hit all three s- all three major spots. That's exactly it. Yeah. You know, and so it's like you've got Marquette North- Mm... 28:23 you know, which is, uh, the Harlow Lake area and stuff, and there's a lot of really good riding there. Um, you know, some of it's a little more flowy, but, you know, some of it's pretty technical- Yeah... and chunky. 28:32 Yeah. Um, a lot of s- like some slick rock spots, which are sweet. Nice. Um, and then you've got Marquette South- Right... where you've got, you know, some really good machine-built trail. 28:42 You got some of the more old-school stuff. Um, it's a real good mix there. You got stuff like by Marquette Mountain. Um, then you've got the whole other like Ishpeming-Negaunee area- Yeah... where the, the, what is it? 28:55 The Ramba or Ram- Yeah. I think it is Rambo... Rambo, Rambo. I think it's Ramba. I don't know which it is. Yeah. 28:59 But yeah, the, they've got a whole nother thing going on out there where it's all this hand-built trail, really technical. It's less flowy, but at the same time it's just incredibly good trail. Yeah. 29:11 Uh, just to give you some perspective, the last 15 miles, estimate how long it's gonna take you to do the last 15 miles. [laughs] I... D- if you're, if you're feeling good, two and a half hours. 29:21 If you're feeling good, it's gonna take you two and a half hours to do that fif- last 15 miles, which- Yeah... wow. Yeah. There's, there... Yeah. Okay. The... It's just, it's an incredibly... 29:30 I mean, like, so what is there? There's like 12,000 feet of climbing. 12,000 feet, yep. Yeah, so but, you know, it's death by a thousand paper cuts, you know? Okay. Just all these short climbs. I think, you know, the... 29:40 There's, there's one climb that approaches like 600 vertical feet at a pop, and that's kind of at the midway point, right around- Okay... 50 miles. You're climbing up to the top of Mount Marquette- Okay... the ski area. 29:51 Um, but that, that's a rarity. Most of the climbs are at best 100, 200 feet of vertical, and it's just, you know, steep, chunky, technical, keeping you on your toes constantly, going up, going down, you know? 30:08 They've built in enough kind of getting in between these trail systems or within the trail systems, you know, enough places where you can kind of get a little reprieve, you know, and then you're just like you're back in it. 30:18 Yeah. And, you know, it's just, it's pretty unrelenting. Huh. Yeah. And, you know, so, you know, Jeremiah Bishop- Yeah... 30:26 one of the fastest guys, um, in the country, he set the course record this year and just broke 10 hours. Okay. You know, so it's... 30:33 And if you look at it, you get a belt buckle if you finish under 12 hours, and there was 19 people that were able to get a belt buckle this year out of like-I don't know. It was, it was over 350 starters in the hundy. 30:45 Yeah. Um, there's like close to 400 people in that. Um- Oh, so they also have a 50. Yeah, they've also got a 50. Yep. Mm-hmm. Um, so I guess, you know, uh, you gotta be pretty burly to get under 12 hours. Huh. 30:59 And it's... This was a perfect weather year. You couldn't have better conditions for the race. How wide were your tires? I ran 2.6's front and rear again. So, um, I absolutely love that Maxxis Rekon on the front. Okay. 31:12 So I've ha- had such good success with that out in Oregon. Um, I love it back here in Michigan. 31:17 There's, there's very few trails that you can ride in like Gnar or, you know, like basically ride out west in Gnar, ride Midwest or, you know, like 'cause Marquette and Brevard have some similarities- Mm-hmm... 31:30 you know, as far as like, you know, what you want equipment [laughs] wise. You know, a tire that works really well there and works really well out in Oregon or whatever. Okay. And then I also like it here in Michigan. 31:39 Huh. That's unheard of. You know, normally it, it doesn't. Yeah, you gotta make a switch. Yeah, but it, it's just, it rolls fast. It's held up fairly well as a front tire. 31:46 It's got really good cornering properties and it's got really good braking properties. So it just kind of checks all the boxes. There you go, yeah. And it, and it's fairly light. Huh. So I, I, I just love it. 31:55 I run that on my single speed for like th- you know, specialized for around here, as well as my burly bike. Gotcha. And then on the rear, I really debated on tires. But I eventually ran that, uh, Victoria 2.6 Mezcal. 32:10 Yeah. Okay. And the reason for that was 'cause it's kind of on the heavy and, like the casing just seems really burly. They have a good reputation for casing durability. Um, it's a, a f- still a fairly fast rolling tire. 32:23 Um, it tends to like shed mud and kind of just be a really good versatile all-arounder. Yeah. Enduro guys ride that I think. No, it's not- No?... it's not that burly. Okay. 32:33 It's like where you'll see the, it, so if you look at like Tour Divide or like the, if you look at like, you know, they had a great article on bikepacking.net,.com, whatever it is- Okay... 32:46 um, where they ended up looking at all the starters. Oh, right. Yeah. And it's like you had a ton of people on 2.2 Icons. Like I wanna say it was like 50% [laughs] of the field or something crazy, or 40%. 32:55 But then it was like 20, 30% of the field was on these Vittoria Mezcals. Okay. But the, in like the 2.2. Oh. Because it's just, it's a fast rolling, hard wearing, durable tire. 33:08 Um, it doesn't do anything great, but it just, it kind of just really nails that all-arounder. It'll always be there for you. Yeah. Okay. 33:16 And like the day before when I was pre-riding, the two guys I was riding with, they had Maxxis Ardent, I think it was like 2.35, 2.4 whatever front tires, and then they had a 2.35 Icon on the rear. Mm-hmm. 33:32 And they were like slipping all over the place, and I'm just like [clicks] locking up. Oh, wow. So it's like, it, it's just, it's a r- it's a real good all-arounder tire. 33:41 The only thing that I haven't liked for that tire is like when you get into wet roots that are kind of like perpendicular to the trail or whatever, it's, the tire's got a center ridge that is interrupted, but it's pretty, it's predominantly it's got a center ridge. 33:54 Okay. And there was just, there's been times around here where just when I'd be on wet roots and things like that, in that scenario where that center ridge kind of keeps me from having anything that bites in. Oh. 34:05 And it was like, you just go [imitates tires] [laughs] Okay. But there was enough rock and variability to the, the trail in Marquette or any other like kind of more gnarly place. 34:15 It's only like pretty tame places around here where I notice [laughs] this behavior. [laughs] That's the thing that's weird about it. Um, that's the only thing I, I can say that kind of isn't ideal about that. 34:24 But the, I guess, and then the other good thing about it, I'm sorry I'm dorking out so hard on this tire, but the, the- Nah, that's what the show's about... it's tall. Oh. Um, it's a, it is a true 2.6 inch tire. 34:34 Um, I've got on like a 35 mil internal width rim. Okay. 34:37 And but it's, it's a really tall tire, so it gives me like an extra, like, I don't know, it's almost like a quarter inch of height from, you know, to prevent tire bottoming out and- Right... pinch flatting. Okay. 34:47 So it gave me a lot of extra insurance that way. And I debated going with the, like the Bontrager XR2 or XR4. I think it's XR4. XR4 I think. XR2. No. Oh, the, the 2 then. I can see it. Yeah. It's, bike behind me with it. 35:03 Gotcha. Um, I really debated going with that. I, or going on the more burly end with a 2.6 inch Knobby Nick, basically using the Knobby Nick that I had out west. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 35:11 Uh, which I kind of wore down, and I really, I love that tire right now- Okay... for this kind of terrain. Like if I was just gonna ride it, hands down I'd go with the Knobby Nick. Gotcha. 35:20 But if I'm gonna race it and I wanna go fast, that Vittoria was a good option. So- Huh. Yeah, so that's, that's the dorkitude about bike- Yeah... stuff. [laughs] Sorry. But why, what's... 35:31 W- let's talk about worn down tires then. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big fan now. [laughs] Are we done with Margie? Are you- No, we can talk about Margie too. But yeah, you wanna talk about worn down tires? 35:41 Well, I wanna talk about Margie. Okay. How'd you do? I, I did well. Okay. I didn't [laughs] it, the, the stars did not align in my favor to do as well as I want. I wanted, I wanted a belt buckle, damn it. Yeah. 35:56 Yeah, that was really what my goal was. You took a wrong turn in Albuquerque. Well, yeah. So- [laughs]... out of the, out of the gate it was, it, just things didn't- And then you shit your pants [laughs]... 36:05 things didn't work all that great. So like within the first 100 yards of the run, like you start off and you got a Le Mans style start, which was rad. Yeah. We had this like [laughs] 36:15 rainbow colored like unicorn leading us out. Yeah. Um, if you haven't seen video of it- Yeah, it's cool... I think there's video out there of it. Yeah. 36:24 Um, so we start this Le Mans sty- you know, so you got almost 400 people running in a pack behind a rainbow unicorn on ski trails, which are like pretty wide. It's like- Yeah... 36:34 I don't know, like 40 feet wide or whatever. But it's, you know, all kind of grassy. And I step in a hole and I feel my back tweak. Like, you know, it was definitely something [laughs] inside shifted. 36:44 You know, like sharp spike of pain type of thing. Um- Not even on the bike yet. No, no. Geez. So but, you know, it wasn't that bad. All right. I could ignore it. 36:53 So-That was just like this lingering pain that just like kind of stuck with me for the first 50 miles. Mm-hmm. And then it tapered off a little bit. 37:02 Or I think it was more like the crescendo of other pains surpassed the pain that that had been generating. Yeah. Uh, it didn't really kick my ass again until after I got off the bike and I couldn't walk and things. 37:15 Right. But, um, so it started off with that way. Um, I g- I was in, like right around top 20 or so- Mm-hmm... um, when we go past- Yeah, we can see it. Yeah... 37:25 yeah, when we, when we go through the tunnel, like go by Lowe's and we go underneath the, the highway there- Yeah... whatever. Um, so I was right around 20th. 37:32 I was doing really well, and then we started getting into South Marquette Trails and [sighs] basically I, I lost where I was going. Right. 37:40 And ended up heading down Down Dogger, which is like one of the downhill trails there. And s- and you basically, you kind of go up to this point where there's like a bunch of trails that branch off. 37:51 There's the A Line, which is what I should have taken. Right. But I went down Down Dogger, and you drop down, I don't know what it is, it's like 500 vertical feet or something like that. Yeah. 38:01 I get down to like the parking lot, and I start seeing arrows, but they all like point in the other direction, so I'm like, "Shit, I got off course" You need to go up. So yeah, climb back up Down Dogger, 38:13 meet up with where the trail was, drop down A Line, and then I get to the unofficial aid station that's at the South Marquette Trailhead. Yeah. 38:21 In that time, I, there's, like I had a couple buddies that were riding it also. I had dropped them a ways back. 38:29 Um, and if I remember right [laughs] I think it was about 15 minutes, my, my friend Brian, who I had dropped, about 15 minutes prior to that, he had hit the checkpoint. Yeah. 38:40 And then the other buddy I had who, um, was even further behind, he had gotten to the checkpoint five minutes before me. Okay. So 38:49 I got out of there before, um, you know, the, my slower buddy who was still there, and then, you know, got out, come to find out [laughs] the aid worker, right, he... Note to self, deal with your own shit, you know? 39:03 Yeah. Like, when it comes to like, you know, your bla- you know, your hydration bladder and stuff like that, just make sure it's right. Um, he had... 39:10 I just handed him my CamelBak, and he, you know, I was thinking he could fill it up, but he ended up putting the bladder in backwards, so it was like the screw top was like hitting me in the back and it was painful. 39:21 Yeah. So I noticed that, but I'm like, "Okay, I don't really care about that. I can ignore that for a while- Right... until I need to fill up again." 39:26 But then you get into some pretty chunky trail after that, and this was a little bit frustrating because I was starting to work through traffic. A bunch of the people that were in front of me couldn't ride this shit. 39:38 So I actually had this like great section where it's like I was able to just like bomb through all this technical stuff, and I didn't have a bunch of guys in front of me that would screw me up. Right. 39:50 And I kinda get to the t- you know, three quarters of the way through that section, and I just start feeling like water, you know, energy drink pouring down my ass crack. Yeah. So that's when I'm like, "Oh, shit. 40:04 He probably didn't put the top on tight enough." Right. So then I had to stop, flip all that stuff around, tighten it up, and then get going again. Um- Another, another-... work through traffic l- you know, again. 40:12 Right Like some of the people I'd just passed. Lose more time. Yep. So I don't, you know... None of that was ideal. I, I would guess I lost at least 20 minutes in that whole thing. And then what? 40:22 But the cool part was- Yeah... then coming up the backside of Mount Marquette, I got to ride, um, with Ben, um- Ben, Ben Welnak... thank you. Ben Welnak of Mountain Bike Radio. Yeah. I didn't realize it at the time. 40:34 Yeah. We, he realized it later on. Maybe. You know, maybe another 20 miles down the trail when we saw each other again, he saw my name on the nameplate. But he was riding super strong and- Cool... 40:44 yeah, he and I were leading our little group going up the back of- Nice... Mount Marquette. Nice. Um, yeah. So, you know, so then I get up to Pioneer Park. Um, I meet up with my other buddy. Mm-hmm. 40:58 I finally caught up to him again. Um, so he had, he'd gotten into the aid station a little bit before me and was still going. So he and I then rode the next... 41:06 So that, that, I think that's like mile 65 when you're at that a- Yeah... like your actual drop bag. Yep. 41:12 So then you ride a lot of the trail up in the Ishpeming, Ishpeming-Negaunee area, and that's just, that's such wonderful, all hand-built trail, chunky. 41:22 Um, a lot of people say it doesn't have flow, but it actually has got some decent flow. It's like if you, you, you can see the bedded end lines of where you're supposed to go. Yeah. 41:32 So it's pretty easy to like kinda shoot, but you gotta have confidence. 41:36 You, you know, if, if, if you are rolling up to stuff and like stopping and like looking at it, you're gonna end up probably walking down [laughs] it. Uh-huh. 41:43 But it's like if you just shoot it, and you can carry your momentum, it's, it's got some really, really, really, really good riding. Gotcha. 41:49 So you gotta end up being very good at sight-reading trail if you don't know it, and it, it's, it's a fun, fun, fun section. It's pretty unique stuff? Yeah. Okay. 41:58 It, it, but it, it also, it's, it, you know, it, it just kills you by a thousand paper cuts, you know? Yeah. All these short, steep hills. 42:05 You got technical like, you know, uh, hairpins you gotta get around, you know, all this stuff. Like, these features you gotta end up kind of weaving your bike through and over and a- around. 42:14 Yeah So it's like it just keeps sapping you. So you got that for like 20 miles, 25 miles, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. That gets you back to Pioneer Park where your drop bags are. Right. Um- Oh, you hit that same spot twice. 42:27 Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep. So, um, you know, Brian has ridden th- this before. I rode it last year, dropped out after like 20, 25 miles 'cause of a slit tire. Um, he did it two years ago, and he got his belt buckle. Yeah. 42:41 Brian's a really strong rider. Um, he, uh, went to school up at Northern in Marquette, so, you know, he's, he's really embedded in the area. He's ridden the trail a lot, got great technical skills. Right. 42:50 Um, so he and I are talking, and he's like, "You know, when you leave Pioneer Park to finish out that last 15 miles, you know, you need at least two and a half hours to make the mark." Right. 43:00 And we were kinda doing the calculation of are we gonna make it under 12 hours or not? Yeah. So-I started feeling a little bit better, like maybe five miles out before going to that, you know, drop bag location again. 43:15 So I just started kind of gunning. I was like, "All right. I'm gonna shut off my brain. I'm just gonna go for this." [laughs] You know, it's like, if I'm in with a shot, there's no reason to look at time anymore. 43:25 There's no reason to look at, you know, any kind of pacing. Just have the map on my GPS and go and don't even think about am I, am I gonna hit the 12 or not? Just go. Right. Right. You know, go as fast as you can. 43:36 So that's basically what I did and, I mean, it took me a good two and a half hours. I kind of blew up for the last 10. 43:43 Um, that sa- last section, like, man, Flannel Shirt and AM/FM are some really awesome trails, but just take it out of you. [laughs] Yeah. 43:52 It's like, it was just really, really hard through there and, you know, I ended up finishing, like, 20 minutes after the cutoff for the bell rung. Ah, I wonder if I could've got the, those 20 minutes back. Yeah. 44:00 So it's like, you know, if I hadn't gotten off course, I would've been, like, right in there. Right there. Which would've been nice. Right. 44:06 But- Well, it says how difficult of a race it is when you've got riders of calibers like Bishop, you know, 10 hours, like, barely. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He just broke it by, like, a couple minutes. Yeah. 44:19 Geez, oh, Pete. Huh. Well- Yeah, those are people that, you know, our local 100-miler can finish it in, like, six hours- Yeah... or six and a half hours or whatever it is. Right. Yeah. 44:28 I won't be going to Margie Gessick ever. I don't think so. No, Margie's, Margie is, it's a really painful experience, but- I might bike pack it, though. No, and I, that's the thing I left from it. 44:37 It was like, I'm not, I'm feeling less and less racey. Yeah. And it's like, you know, that would... The concept of riding all the badass trails in, you know, the Marquette, Ishpeming to Gawani area- Right... 44:49 i- is a great concept. 44:51 I just, if you did it over the course of two days, and you camp someplace in between or whatever, or heck, I mean, it's like there'd be plenty of options where you could stay at a, like, a hotel or something midway. 45:01 Sure. So you wouldn't even have to carry a bunch of heavy crap. Right. You know, and, like, you can resupply 'cause you're going through population areas. 45:06 You wouldn't even have to carry, like, a, you know, stove or any of this other... But it, just do it over two days and kind of have it as a route. Mm-hmm. That would be super, super rad. 45:13 That sounds like a much better idea and way more fun. Yeah. I think, you know, it's much more approachable for most people. 45:18 You still get all the good trail, and I think you might actually enjoy the trail more 'cause it's kind of death march-y at the end. Gotcha. 45:24 I have been enjoying trail recently because I have not replaced my rear worn out- [laughs]... tire. Getting a little steezy out on the trail, skidding around. It is a lot of fun. Trails are really worn out right now. 45:35 They need, they need some, uh, detritus on them. Yeah. You get, you know, like with around here, we get a bunch of rain, so then it washes sand kind of down the trails. Oh, yeah. 45:45 And then, so you get these sand pits and stuff and, you know. But the trails, you know, it's just, it's worn and I'm, this rear w- tire is, has been wonderful. I love it. Yeah. You got a really worn out- Ranger, yeah... 45:56 WTB Ranger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So it's like all the knobs are, like, cones now. They're not really [laughs] there are no sharp edges on anything. They're more like domes, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. 46:06 Um, so don't replace your tires until you really need to. Get steezy. Have fun. Exactly. Get a little drifty out there. Exactly. Um, I think it's gonna wrap us up. Uh, you can email us at Fat Camp Podcasters- Plural... 46:22 uh, yeah, um, @gmail.com. You can check us out on the Instagram @fatcamppodcast. We're there too. Every once in a while I'll try to throw up a picture. Um, heck, and if you ever wanna... 46:34 If you're ever in Michigan- Yeah, look us up... let us know. Um, but good. We're back. And, um- Getting into fall season. We're getting into fat bike season. Exactly. 46:43 We're gonna go to Brown County, and we're gonna party down there, so we'll talk about that later on. But thanks for listening. We appreciate it, and, uh, we'll talk to you later. Cheers. 46:51 [singing] I'm a northern timber boy. I'm a UP boy. UP boy. I ride a snowmobile. Up to the Keweenaw. Thanks for listening. 47:09 The music we are using on today's show is from Konga Semena, hopefully I pronounced that right, and their song UP Boy. You can find all our shows at fat-bike.com, including notes for today's show. 47:20 [singing] Where'd you really go? 47:33 [upbeat music playing] I'm a UP boy. UP boy. Really, I'm a UP boy. UP boy. A true heart UP boy. 47:50 UP boy. Yeah. I'm a UP boy. 47:57 [upbeat music playing]
