Transcript 0:00 It's the Danger Gnome podcast for early October two thousand and nineteen. 0:11 [upbeat music] Welcome to the Danger Gnome. 0:27 We have Gary Crandall, who just retired from a thirty-five-year career as the race director of the Chequamegon Fat Tire Festival. 0:34 I ask Adam Blake about gravel race tires, then we talk with fatback pro mountain biker, Liz Sampie, about her upcoming expedition to traverse Pakistan, India, and Nepal by fatbike and packraft. 0:50 Up first, we have the legendary Northwoods mountain bike ringmaster, Mr. Gary Crandall, right after this. [upbeat music] So I heard you need a fatbike. Come to Zion Cyclery in Zion, Illinois. 1:04 We have all brands: Trek, Borealis, Salsa, Felt, Surly, and more. Yo, we have all the cold weather gears by Forty Five North and Bundfiger. Keep those fingers and toes nice and toasty. We fix bikes also. 1:21 So you have any problem, brakes, gears, suspension, we have the best mechanics in town. So yeah, visit us at zioncyclery.com. 1:36 You're tuned to Fat Bike Radio. Please welcome to the show the race director of the Chequamegon Fat Tire Fest for thirty plus years, Gary Crandall. Actually, it was thirty-five, uh, Gobens, you know? But, uh- Right on. 1:54 Oh- And now I'm the, now I'm the former race director, so yeah. Right, right. D- And you just retired from that f- position. Thirty-five years. Hokey smokes. That's amazing. That's, that was more than half my life. 2:07 [laughs] The better half, right? [laughs] Yeah, actually it was, it was quite, quite great. 2:13 It was, uh, it was a nice run for, for all those years, and it was a good thing I got that job because when I w- moved to Northern Wisconsin, I wasn't quite sure what I was gonna do for a living, and I just kinda was in the right place at the right time. 2:27 That's, that's a good thing. I actually met you in person for the first time at my friend Bill Schneider's wedding. He rode in- Bill. 2:36 [laughs] He rode in and, uh, did the essay for he and his betrothed to get into the race. That's right. And they were married- That's right... 2:46 on the big stage, and, uh, the reception was right behind the then Telemark Lodge, the open Telemark Lodge, back in the last century sometime [laughs] or thereabouts. 2:57 You know, and if I had to list a, a, a top twenty, possibly a top ten things that happened in all those years I ran the Chequamegon, uh, having, uh, Bill and Susie get married at the finish line was certainly one of them. 3:10 And I bumped into her, uh, after the race this year. She was up with her daughter. They were having a great time, and it, it really was nice. I got to spend some time with them. That's awesome. That's awesome. 3:20 Then their son, I think, is, oh, maybe looking at college, so- I believe so... they have a son, Elliot. I believe so, yeah. 3:29 So my first question is which-- what came first, the Chequama Mamas or the Chequamegon Fat Tire Fest? Oh, that's a good question. Actually, the Chequama Mamas came first and, um, that was our, um... 3:44 So going back to the late '70s- Mm-hmm... um, I, I went to school in Madison, uh, lived in Madison. I'd moved around all my life, uh, 'cause my dad had worked for Montgomery Wards for so long. 3:57 And I went to school in Madison, and I said I was never gonna leave Madison, and, uh, I ended up going to school, graduated, hung out, uh, was there for about 10 years. 4:08 And then, uh, one day sitting in the Crystal Corner Bar, I'm talking to my associate, just a kind of a business associate, Phil Van Val kenburg. Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, and Phil's Mr. 4:20 Bike in Wisconsin and started the Yellow Jersey. And, and Phil and I both said we were finally leaving Madison, but we didn't know each other well enough to say where we were going. 4:31 And, um, that was the last time I saw Phil at the Crystal Corner Bar. The next week I bumped into him at Telemark. Uh, he had moved up to, uh, start working with Tony Wise, and I'd moved up. 4:43 I'd kind of followed my heart and moved up into the woods with a good-looking artistic, uh, woman who became my wife and mother of my children. Mm-hmm. 4:52 And, uh, the Chequama Mamas started riding bicycles in the late '70s because Phil was the guy that got people out on their bikes, so. So I, I had no idea that Phil was a, was a, was a Chequama Mama. That's crazy. 5:06 He was one of the original Mamas, yeah. Mm-hmm. I have, uh, actually I, I posted a picture of the, the, the predecessor of the Chequama Mamas Bicycle Club was the Cable Beer and Gear Brigade. [laughs] Nice. 5:20 And I have a great picture of them, and this was in the early '80s when we were about to do our first Firehouse 50, back when the Firehouse, the Grandview Firehouse 50 started. Nobody's got a helmet on. 5:34 Nobody had any Lycra on. Um, we barely had bike shorts. I think maybe Phil was the only one that had anything that resembled bicycling shoes. I see a lot of jeans in those old pictures. And we were just a- Yeah. 5:47 That's right. Yeah, and we were just a bunch of people that, uh, got out and rode on Thursdays. And the Mamas, uh, the Cable Beer and Gear Brigade became the Mamas on one ride. 5:57 We were trying to think of a new name, and somebody blurted that out, and it stuck and, and, uh, we've been riding, um, in the Northwoods, uh, around Cable and Hayward and SealeyFor over 40 years now. That's fantastic. 6:10 And, uh- Yeah, it's a great group. And how did then that group, along with whoever else, start the Chequamegon Fat Tire Festival? Well, it, it-- 6:23 the guys that started the event, and contrary to very popular belief, I did not invent the concept. I actually got involved in the second year. 6:31 I rode in the very first year, nineteen eighty-three, and I have no recollection of, other than knowing the guys that were putting on the race, um, of having anything to do with it. 6:41 But, uh, everybody had been associated for, at that time, um, over ten years with the American Birkebeiner because, uh, four of the five, uh, people that, uh, uh, came up with the concept the first year, uh, worked for Tony Wise. 6:58 Mm-hmm. Knew the Birkebeiner, knew, uh, of the growth of cross-country skiing and how it started and how it, um, you know, was ripe for attracting people to large special events that were well, were well run. 7:11 And Tony, uh, Tony Wise was the king of hospitality. 7:15 He may not have made any money on anything that he did, but people liked coming to Tony's races because he was real big on customer service and the experience and the fact that it's a citizens event. Nice. 7:28 And honest to God, somebody said one day, "How about a bicycle race on the Birkie trail?" 'Cause mountain bikes had just started to show up in the Midwest. Sure. That was really early. And there you go. Yeah. 7:40 Yeah, it was, it was as e-e-early as that, uh, as simple as that, and these guys, uh, had some experience running a race. They put it on the first year, twenty-seven riders- Wow... in the first year. Wow. And, uh, 7:53 I hadn't-- I'd never done a lot of events, but I had just bought a, one of the early production Stumpjumpers from my buddy, Doug Cruz. Right. 8:03 And Doug was, uh, the image on our, on our, on our event logo for many, many years until it was rebranded, and I rode that, uh, '83 Stumpjumper in the '83, uh, Chequamegon Fat Tire Festival, along with 27 other people. 8:18 And then, as a self-employed guy with, uh, seasonal downtime on my hands- Mm-hmm... this is kind of a feast and famine economy up here, uh, and I knew how to type, and I could write a decent letter. 8:32 I said, "Sure, I'll help out." And so from '82 to twenty eighteen, I, I directed the event. Very cool. Yeah, it just kind of-- I stepped into it, uh, learned it on the fly, learned from some of the best people 8:49 who'd run events. I mean, Phil had started many events and run many events. Tom Kelly, who worked for the US Ski Association for almost forty years. Mike Cooper was a timer. 9:00 Um, you know, the guys we worked with all had great special event experience and, and I, by osmosis, I kind of absorbed it and- And incredible support from the- You know, running events didn't happen-- What's that? 9:13 I said in, in-incredible support from the entire community up there. The volunteer base that seems to turn out for- Oh, yeah... for the races up there is, uh, is impressive. 9:25 Well, you know, uh, Gomez, people in this community, uh, it's a lot of, uh, small businesses that are run up here. Mm-hmm. Uh, we don't have a, uh, an excess of, uh, entertainment. 9:36 I mean, we don't g-go off to places like they do in the cities. 9:40 Um, we make our own entertainment, and that entertainment is, uh, having people come to the area and enjoy, uh, you know, enjoy the, the wooded forest that we have, the, the, just the playground, the trails, whether it's skiing or biking or snowmobiling or ATVing or whatever we're doing, um, we kinda make our living up here by people coming to the area and having a good time and then coming back another time and, and certainly the Chequamegon was a good example of 10:12 picking a time of year. It was mid-September. Mm-hmm. That's kind of the rolling up the sidewalks time in northern Wisconsin, at least before mountain biking came out. Sure. 10:21 And then, of course, we all learned that mountain biking was such a great sport to enjoy in late summer and September and when the trees are turning and, and look how that's developed. 10:30 Right, that used to be, used to be that was mountain biking season because we weren't-- w-we were all road, road bikes in the summer and who- Right... wanted to go into the woods when all those mosquitoes were there? 10:41 So you kind of waited until fall. Exactly. Yeah. But now... Exactly. That's another reason we picked September was, was the bugs were dead, and there was accommodations available. 10:51 [laughs] I mean, you wouldn't want to have an event on the Fourth of July 'cause everything was booked. 10:54 It can't be because of the, [laughs] of the good weather because, oh my God, you're-- that race, dude, that race, like is just known for the- We had some pretty memorable days [laughs] 11:06 Monsoons that, that happened, uh, in conjunction with that race and the, the temporary lakes that form [laughs] at the bottom of all those- Oh, yeah... Birkie hills. 11:16 Um- Well, the, the, the, uh, the positive report when it would rain a lot was I'd always say, "Dust will not be a problem." [laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Bring your water wings. Yeah. Yeah. 11:29 Don't wear your white cycling kit this, this weekend, you know, this... 11:34 [laughs] Yeah, so it, it, um, it really, um, community support, industry support, of course, uh, just our whole region is such a cycling, um, you know, mecca's a, you know, overused word, but... 11:50 And look how CAMBA developed out of that. Oh, yeah. The CAMBA Trail Association. Absolutely. 11:53 Chequamegon Fat Tire gave CAMBA their first thousand dollars and, and, uh, when we first sat down and met and, "Let's go out and raise some money and do some good," and they've done great things for the last thirty years. 12:05 And then- Oh, yeah... and then look, then look at fat biking. I mean, then all of a sudden you weren't just riding in the summer and riding in the summer and riding in the fall. 12:13 All of a sudden you were riding year-round other than maybe gun deer season. Right on. Yep.Like you rode, you rode in the wintertime before fat bikes, didn't you? Oh, you're in such a skiing area. Um, very little. Yeah. 12:26 Not much. Not much. There w- there was, there was... First of all, it was tough having equipment that worked- Right... up there 'cause a mountain bike wasn't the best thing to, to use on a, uh, say a forest road. 12:38 Um- But you don't have bad, the really bad snow years like the lower part of the state has. You know, you're, you, you're... Although, you know, sometimes even the Birkie doesn't get run. 12:50 I think it happened once at least. Uh- You can usually count on- But you have reliable snow... snow in the winter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Which is good for the fat biking now. 12:57 Well, and the thing that, thing that really grew that was, um, you know, when, when they started servicing the fat bike, um, needs and, and, um, entertainment that we got the- when they started grooming trails. Right. 13:09 I mean, CAMBA- Yeah... started grooming trails, and what's more fun than to go on an off-road trail that's been packed down hard smooth and ride your fat bike on it? No doubt. Yeah. 13:20 And you guys- I mean, that's super fun. Yeah. And you are a, a fat biker. I see you have a, a robin's egg blue Trek Farley. Yep, got the Farley. Like the Farley, and I'm actually, uh... 13:34 I haven't, actually haven't ridden that much in the winter- Mm-hmm... although now with my retired, uh, big riding streak I got going- Right. Yeah. That's always good... 13:43 I gotta keep it going, so the first thing I'm gonna have my wife, uh, gift me with is a nice set of, uh, studded tires so I, uh, so I can still get out on the roads and the trails when it's icy and, and, uh, keep riding. 13:57 Right on. Yeah, and then you are... You started with a, uh, 30 days of cycling, which has turned into 175 days of cycling. Yeah. Actually, today will be 179, now that I'm counting every day. 179. [laughs] 179. 14:13 That's awesome. Yeah. I'm closing in on a half a year, which is pretty interesting. Now a lot of people have ridden their bikes, like, continuously. I mean, people had urban bike commuters and, and- Sure. Yeah, I-... 14:25 uh, people had used two-wheelers as transportation. So it's, it's not a huge streak, but for me, a guy who was in the cycle industry, who admittedly had more bikes than he actually rode- Mm-hmm... 14:39 and, uh, when I was getting ready to retire and people would say, "Well, what are you gonna do with your free time?" And I'd always, to answer the question, would say, "I think I'm gonna ride my bike more." 14:49 And, uh- [laughs] That's a good answer. Yeah. Yeah. 14:52 And it kinda turned out that way, and I've gotten, uh, I've really, uh, rejuvenated my passion for, for cycling and, and rotating the bikes that I'm riding and rotating the rides that I'm taking and... 15:04 Like today, it started out raining today. It was not a pretty day, but, uh, gotten pretty good at looking at the radar and saying, "You know, about 2:00 today, I think I'll be going for a ride." Yeah. 15:16 And that's exactly what I'm gonna do. You know, uh, I use an AccuWeather feature, which is MinuteCast, and it'll tell you if it's gonna be dry for the next 120 minutes in your specific area. Oh, I'm gonna look that up. 15:30 So- Yeah... 15:31 I, I use that quite a bit where, yeah, I, I know I can get back and do my regular Bandito ride here, uh, in two hours, so not that I would melt and not that I haven't gotten caught in the rain, but- Oh, yeah... you know. 15:44 [laughs] Yeah. Well, it's less, less cleanup if you're riding when the roads are dry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think we've covered almost everything on my... Oh, no, I have one, one last thing is, uh, do you have... 15:57 Like, you mentioned that, uh, Bill and Suzy's wedding was in your top 10. Do you have a favorite moment or a, uh, or your favorite story from the, from your years as the race director of the Chequamegon Fat Tire Fest? 16:13 Well, you know, right up there, Gomez, I'd be remiss if I didn't r- uh, mention the time that Telemark was still open. It was a thriving entity, and we were working out of the coliseum. Mm-hmm. 16:26 And I, and I looked out, I looked out the door, and there was that, uh, that guy in the Z jersey when LeMond showed up in 1990. Oh. Yeah. 16:37 You know, a number of his buddies had come up, um, um, uh, Jack Bradley, Mark Fries, one of our early champions, was an old training partner of La Cross- uh, from La Cross of, of, of LeMond's. Mm-hmm. 16:49 And I'd kinda heard that he was coming, but you never know until you actually see him. And I remember when I first laid eyes on Greg LeMond and I thought, "I think we hit the big time here." 17:01 [laughs] Because that, that... I mean, here he'd won the Tour de France, um, three times, and the Chequamegon was the first mountain bike race that he ever did. And what a gracious guy. What a gracious guy. 17:13 I mean, he walks in and grabs his wallet. He's gonna pay me for his entry, and I said, "I think we got this one covered." And, and, uh, he really brought, uh, a good media attention to the event. 17:24 And, and, and we were growing anyway, but when people like that show up to your event, a non-cash event, no, no cash prizes- Mm-hmm... you know, not a sanctioned event, um, that was a, that was a pretty cool thing. 17:37 That was something I, I'll, I'll always remember. And he still comes up here to ski, and haven't seen him biking for a while, but- That's pretty cool... I'd say that's, I'd say that's a top story. 17:48 Well, thanks for sharing that. And, uh- Yeah. You bet... thanks for taking time out of your day to chat with us on the "Danger Gnome" podcast. Uh, it's, it's been a pleasure, sir. We'll have to go ride. 18:00 Thanks for calling. Yeah, we'll have to go ride sometime. Yeah, sometime when you're up, give me a buzz. Give me a buzz. I, I, I know some places maybe you don't know and, and, uh- Nice... 18:08 if you ever wanna chat again, I got, uh... I don't have to be, uh, prompted too much to come up with some other Chequamegon stories. So I'm glad to, glad to always talk about the history of that event. Right on. 18:18 Well, let's talk, uh, maybe as the, uh, buildup of the Fat Bike Birkie comes, I'm gonna race the Fat Bike Birkie this year.Well, I might even be tempted to do that, although I certainly enjoy parking cars as, as a volunteer, so I'm gonna have to... 18:34 I'll have to think of that. But, uh, yeah, maybe if I get those studded tires, I'll be ready to rock in that. Right on. All right, Gary. All right, buddy. Thanks for the call. Take care. Bye-bye. All right, bye. 18:44 [upbeat music] That was Gary Crandall, the race director of the Chequamegon Fat Tire Festival for thirty-five years. [upbeat music] Next up on the show we've got Ask Adam. Hey, buddy. Hey, how's it going, man? 19:00 Good, brother. How are you? Uh, doing good. I got this, uh, this new test bike and we are, uh- Yeah... we are, we are on the air for the Danger Gnome Podcast. 19:10 This is the Ask Adam segment, and today's question comes from a young man, well, an old man from, uh, Aztalan, Wisconsin. [laughs] Who just, uh, [coughs] excuse me, through a stroke of luck and 19:25 being a silver-tongued devil, has a new, uh, Bear Claw Bikes Bo Jackson in the garage. And I took a ride on it yesterday, and it, uh, it blew my... I d- did-- I just 19:43 took it on my regular gravel ride, so I've been using this 19:47 Wahoo ELEMNT ROAM, and it's hooked up to the Strava machine, so the-- I have regular Strava segments that I do, and it personal bested all the three segments in this gravel section that I rode yesterday. Yeah. 20:03 So that's- That's a cool bike... super road race-y feeling, and it's got giant tires on it and, you know, I'm, I'm just like your typical customer that would come into World of Bikes, World of Bikes, where you're, uh, 20:20 where you're, you're one of the powerful bike wizards there. And, uh, I'm like, "Well, I just got this bike and I've got these Coronados," and they feel great, and they're big and they're burly- Yeah... 20:30 and they can do everything. But I'm gonna do [laughs] this race, and I'm looking for something that'll maybe be a little more race-y. Sure. So went to... 20:43 You know, I, I, I know that Teravail and Terrene both have tires, and I remember the tires that you had on your bike. I remember what they look like. 20:56 I'm looking for something with some edge knob, but not a lot of knob in the middle. Yeah. What does the Coronado not do for you? Look smaller. 21:12 [laughs] Um, I'm- 'Cause it's twenty-seven and a half by three, right? It's twenty-nine by three. It's twenty-nine by three. Yeah. So these are twenty-nine inch rims, and with a twenty-seven... They're the i9 Trails. 21:28 Yeah. So they have a twenty-seven millimeter inner dimension. Right. Their website says two point two to two point five tires. I have a three-inch tire on there right now, so there's, there's a sizable amount of, uh... 21:42 One, one of the things that, that I would say is they don't roll up from a stop as quickly as a smaller tire would. Um- Sure... so I just don't think that, uh... 21:54 I, I wanna be able to, in dry conditions, to be able to train on that tire and then move to another tire that takes me to that next level. [laughs] Yeah. Isn't that what we're all looking for? 22:06 [laughs] You know, new levels of maybe crashing 'cause I put on stupid bare tires. [laughs] Right. Um, so twenty-nine... So, [sighs] we have a-- There's, like, a, 22:24 a intention thing that we're dealing with. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, in the twenty-nine plus, um, world, you know, everything, most everything is, is three inch. 22:42 Um, and it's designed for, you know, mountain biking. Right. Um, so it's, it's not necessarily, uh, the best gravel tires, you know? 22:56 Um, twenty-seven and a half plus has kind of adopted a few more, uh, gravel-y tires. Um, one tire that I know I've mentioned to other people- Mm-hmm... um, and have actually, 23:13 uh, used myself is the, uh, Maxxis Chronicle. Ah, mm-hmm. But I don't know if that's really necessarily what you're looking for. It's not a real high side knob, um, kinda, 23:30 you know, kinda tire. It's, uh... And we're still talking in the three-inch realm. We haven't even dabbled in what's narrower. Yeah. I'm thinking- You know? 23:37 I'm thinking a tire in that two point four, two point two inch range 'cause it's- I think you're still gonna- Yeah... I think you're still gonna deal with intention, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. 23:46 Like, uh, people that are running twenty-nine by two point four, two point five are riding big all-mountain bikes with DH casing, you know, and, and super aggressive knobs and things like that. You know what I mean? 24:02 What about the, uh, what about an Elwood or a, or a, or a Sparwood or a- Sparwood, biggest Sparwood you're gonna get is a two point two. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, which I think is 24:16 a small tire on a twenty-seven internal, but probably works. Um, you know, um, Maxxis Icon in a two three five- Mm-hmm... might not be a bad option. 24:32 All right.Uh, again, though, I don't know if that's answering your question as far as, like, a smooth center with high side knobs. You know what I mean? Right. So what, what tire are you running on your Cutthroat? 24:45 I run a Barwood. Okay. But I run, like, a twenty-four internal rim, you know? Right. 24:52 And while three millimeters doesn't seem like a big deal, we're only ranging from, say, twenty to thirty in total range- Right...usable range- Oh, yeah...for what we're dealing with. 25:02 So three-- You know, that's thirty percent of our range right there. You know what I mean? Sure. Um, so it's, it's an interesting dynamic. Uh, as we're seeing these bigger tired gravel bikes, 25:20 you know, or all adventure bikes, whatever we wanna call 'em. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, 25:26 we're seeing some companies like, I think, Caravel kinda leading the way with, with multi-use traction, multi-use tread designs and in different volumes. You know what I mean? Right. Uh, because the Barwood, you know... 25:41 What I, what... The reason I gravitated towards the Barwood was I really liked how the Cannonball, uh, another Caravel tire, uh, performed in the thirty-eight to forty-two range. Mm-hmm. 25:55 But I was running a Cutthroat and wanted, uh, more volume. Gotcha. You know? Um- So-...Cutthroat only cleared the two-four, so I needed to leave... 26:03 You know, a two-two seemed like a hot spot 'cause I kinda left a little room for mud and, and whatever else you're gonna get into. You know what I mean? Right, and gnomes. And gnomes, right. 26:14 [laughs] You suck one of those up in your wheel, you're happy for some tire clearance. There's also a Bontrager tire that intrigues me. Yeah, the XR- XRO. Yep. Um, they do... That's a pretty... 26:29 You know, I have some beef with Bontrager when they changed the name from, uh, Chupacabra in their twenty-nine two threes. [laughs] You know, I thought that was one of the best names. 26:39 People have such a, such a- To be honest...people get in a tizzy about the names. Why? Yeah, I thought that was- Why did you take away my favorite name [laughs] and change it to this? Right. 26:48 I thought that was really one of the best names that existed in, uh- Yeah...you know, existed in tires. Like, just, you know, the goat bloodsucker, right? Yeah. And that is, that is a, that is a kickass tire. 27:01 I just spent the whole summer on a set of those and- Right. You probably rode them on your eleven twenty. Right. And that tire didn't do anything that I didn't love, you know? Right. 27:10 But still, if I was gonna go do a metric century that included gravel roads, 27:17 some, you know, just parts-- It's punctuated with parts where a mountain bike tire would be nice and then lots of flowy, you know, gravel and roads. I, I want something smoother, smaller, lighter that 27:35 is gonna give me that extra mile and a half per hour on the smooth parts. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah I think- I've turned into a racer boy. [laughs] Yeah. Uh, 27:51 you know, that's a, that's a little bit out of my, uh- But I don't wanna fall down a lot. [laughs] Right. Nobody does. Um- No zip, no zip boom, but a little, uh, shimmy, shimmy cocoa bop is just fine. Yeah. This is... 28:08 You know, uh, I'll be honest. Uh, generally, my intention or, um, a, a thing that I value in, um, in a tire, uh, for me- Mm-hmm...speed is usually not a concern. 28:25 A tire is not making or breaking, uh, my, you know, my ability to enjoy- Right...bikes that-- whatever- Oh, yeah, yeah. 28:34 I've, I've, I've lived in that, in that, [laughs] in that ballpark, you know, for a long time, but always kind of favored moderately knobbed tires that will give me a little bit less rolling resistance rather than the full-on... 28:49 Because the amount of time that you need super gnar tread- Not super high...is, is pretty small. It's less than five percent of your riding. Right. 28:59 Um, you know, I think the other-- I think another thing to consider, uh, beyond size and volume is, is makeup of the tire, you know? Mm-hmm. 29:11 One twenty TPI versus sixty TPI, certain durometers of rubber are more applicable to mountain than they may be to gravel. You know, we're seeing softer and softer tires in mountain because traction is a premium. Right. 29:26 Well- So I'm, I'm-...traction in knobs is probably not coming from in gravel. Volume is giving you your traction, you know. So 29:35 light and supple, that's good, that's what I would, that's what I would- Yeah...lean towards is- For sure. Are you running that durable Coronado? I'm not sure what, what came on... 29:46 I, I think they're light and supples in their black walls on, on the bike. Yeah. And they, they feel... 29:51 Well, you know, I've had one ride on, on that bike, but obviously they're rolling just fine because- Right...you know, I was going fast. Right, right, right. Yeah. 30:01 They're not, uh, failing you necessarily- No, no...according to what other things exist. And I-- We've, we've reviewed that set of tires kind of exhaustively and come away with nothing but great things to say about it. 30:16 Um- Right. Yeah, it would've been my first-...Seth, Seth Bell, you know, swears by it, and that guy rides a ton of chunky gravel. Yeah. It would've been one of my first ones that I pointed you to. 30:26 Uh, I think a sleeper that you don't see a lot of, but it's-- and it may be kind of a little bit of a heavy tire, but I know good things about their, their mountain tires on gravel would be, like, the Vittoria Barzellette. 30:38 Oh, yeah. I think that's-But I-- that's a twenty-nine plus tire still- Mm-hmm... you know? Right on. And- Um... man, the-- it's-- they're not available everywhere. Right, not available everywhere. 30:50 Ha-hard to get ahold of sometimes. Right. You have to just find the right distribution channel, et cetera. Right. Right. 30:57 And, you know, just not distri- not distributed by the- Whereas those Bontrager tires, I mean, you go- Except for everywhere in Wisconsin probably. [laughs] Yeah, where I am, that's, you know, 31:10 I can get anything with, uh, from truck dealers 'cause that seems to be what I'm surrounded by. Right. You know, there is a, uh, there is a Nard, the Surly Nard twenty-nine plus. Ooh. You know? 31:24 Um- Yeah, you know, that's, that's a good point, and I have, [laughs] and I have a pair of those. Hmm. Yeah. Um, they're, they're- Talk about slip slidin' away or, or- Yeah, not good for-... 31:35 the shimmy shimmy cocoa bop kinda... 31:37 If it gets wet, I'm gonna-- If, if it's wet or, or, you know, I get reports that there's big puddles and whatnot, I think I'm gonna roll with the Coronados, but if we have a nice dry spell, and you know, it's more hard packy, I'm gonna be looking to move into tire X. 31:57 Right. Um, you know, I, I would, uh-- I mean, here, here's another facet to consider. Mm-hmm. 32:06 Um, obviously you've been on twenty-nine plus platforms before, so you're aware of tire pressure, and obviously being as akin to fat bikes, you know what tire pressure even a pound or two can do to the performance of a tire. 32:19 Oh, yeah. I know right where I wanna be with off-road and on-road for that twenty-nine three tire. Right. 32:28 Uh, but you may challenge yourself and your notions of, of pressure and, and dabble in a little lower or a little higher because, again, we're dealing with such volume that, like, one PSI may make the difference between flipping out on a steep climb or biting on a steep climb. 32:48 Mm-hmm. And overall, you know, i-is that where you pick up speed? 32:52 You know, it's not necessarily the rolling, um, when you're just pedaling down a flat road, but it's like how does it-- does it climb more effectively or, or this or that, you know what I mean? 33:01 Can you descend faster because you're more confident? Uh, you can pick up a lot of speed, so to speak, um, being more efficient in those areas rather-- 33:12 maybe in, in conjunction with a faster rolling tire, but sometimes that's, that's where it is, you know? It's, it's not necessarily what you pick up on the flat, it's what you pick up in the other spots. 33:24 And this course is, is rolly. You know, it's, it's Wisconsin kind of hills where if you can carry your mo down, you're gonna get two-thirds of the way up the next one. Right. So, 33:38 well, we might have just saved myself a few shekels there and I might just be, uh-- I'm probably in that eighty percent chance of running the tires that came on it, but in my mind it just seems like more tire than, than this specific race task calls for, you know? 33:58 And I'm- Sure. I think, I think there's some consideration too, like if a bike, if a bike is des- you know, like Krampus, let's take Krampus for example. Mm-hmm. You know, designed around a twenty-nine three tire, right? 34:12 Right. So you see people that put on two fours and two fives on the Krampus. 34:19 Does a Krampus with a two four or a two five handle and steer and accelerate like the Krampus is quote unquote "intended" to? Right. The- You know what I mean? 34:33 'Cause you could change the bottom bracket height by, I don't know, as much as- The bottom bracket-... half an inch or so probably... you're gonna change the head tube angle slightly. Mm-hmm. Sure. You know? 34:44 Um, so I, I think there's a... You know, I get into this a lot. So, Cutthroat, let's go to Cutthroat. Mm-hmm. I get a lot of people that are like, "I wanna go faster on my Cutthroat." 34:56 I just had this conversation with a good friend, and he's put on Maxxis Rambler forty-fives and he's like, "I wanna go faster." And, and basically my response at this point is, "It's, it's not possible." You know? 35:11 This is a bike designed for all-day adventure, not to be a speedy racer bike. Mm-hmm. So geometrically, the bike doesn't intend for you to be super speedy on, no matter what tire you put on it. You know what I mean? 35:25 Sure. Now, and that's not to say that a Cutthroat can't go fast. Obviously it can. Um, but you know what I mean? Is it gonna be as fast as a Warbird just to keep in the same company? No. You know, it's not. 35:39 Um, it's not intended to be as fast as a Warbird. Warbird is a gravel race bike. And I would wonder a little bit, you know, what are the intentions and the direction of a Beau Jackson? Mm-hmm. 35:51 Uh, is it designed to be a gravel race bike or a gravel adventure bike? 35:57 You know, if I was designing a frame, I'd take those into consideration, and I make geometric changes to a bike to accommodate adventure or to accommodate speed. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? 36:09 When I got on it, it seemed like it was built for speed. It seemed- Yeah... really road racey to me. 36:19 Um- See, and I would argue that anyone that's specking a twenty-nine three or a twenty-seven and a half three- Mm-hmm... is not intending for speed. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. 'Cause that's not a fast tire. Mm-hmm. 36:30 We, we all know that. Right. You know what I mean? So I, I, I just-- I think, I think there's a little bit of balance to be found, you know what I mean? And like-Uh, enjoyment in the 36:49 platform that we're using and an understanding and awareness, which you have, of the platform that we're using. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 36:57 This, this bike makes me wanna take it to some of my friends [laughs] like you and say, "Ride this thing." Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've looked at that bike many times. 37:06 I had a friend that rides for Bearpaw and, uh, he had their Balthazar- Mm-hmm... or something like that. Right on. Uh, and, and I really-- I was really pretty into that bike. Uh, they do some cool stuff. 37:17 They seem like a pretty cool company. Uh, they're really into social media and social media presence. They reach out to people who are just good ambassadors versus, like, race winners. You know what I mean? Yeah. 37:29 Yeah, yeah. So I have good things to say about Bearpaw. Jason, Jason, the, the man behind the brand is, uh, is quite the dude. Yeah. I have good things to say about the brand. 37:39 But I think to go back to your specific question about how to, like, make a BoJackson faster with implementation of a narrower tire- Uh-huh... I don't know, man. 37:51 Uh, you know, a, a 24 Icon, probably my best, probably my best recommendation. If you wanna go all the way down that far, I wouldn't go much narrower than a 24 on a, a 30 mil, 27 mil rim, you know? Mm-hmm. 38:03 I think you're gonna-- Because if we go to two, how flat is that tire? Right. You know, what are we really getting out of that tire? True that. 38:12 And, and so much industry-wide, we're so much more aware of tire and rim combination than we ever have before, you know? Yeah, and there are so many more choices too. So many more choices. 38:21 Well, that's, that's a tire that I had not even thought of, so I appreciate it. It's the Ask Adam segment of the Danger Gnome Podcast. Adam is, uh, 38:34 one of the many powerful wizards at World of Bikes in Iowa City, Iowa. Stop by, he'll make you a, a wicked cappuccino or pour over. Ah, anytime. 38:47 Are you, are you, are you brewing the kombucha there at [laughs] at World of Bikes? I don't deal with anything fermented. [laughs] All right. Yeah, the-- what-- There's no liquor in it though, right? I know. 39:01 It still tastes boozy to me. Yeah? It's supposed to be good for you. It's supposed to be good for you. [laughs] Kinda like bike riding. Yeah. All right, dude. Definitely good for you. 39:16 Well, I'm gonna jump- All right, man... on that BoJackson, and I'm [laughs] gonna ride some gravel and some road and some single track on that thing. Hopefully it- Hell yeah... doesn't buck me off. 39:29 [laughs] No, I think that'll be great. So, uh, that's, that's what I'm gonna do. Is it, is your day, is it your day off or are you just going in like- It is. Nice. Nope, day off. 39:39 One-- Every now and then I get one, and gonna go r- ride my Cutthroat with my wife. Right on. Well, you guys have a great ride. You too. Say hello to everybody out there, all my amigos out in Iowa City. Will do, brother. 39:52 All right. See you later, man. All right, buddy. All right. See ya. Bye-bye. [upbeat music] We interrupt the program for a special Beach Funduro update. I'm here. [imitates music] [laughs] I'm here. 40:10 An SOS. Do you know SOS, people? Because you're gonna have to in order to get our message. The, uh- [laughs] We're, we're here in the Cloud Factory music room. 40:18 There's squirrels outside, it's raining, and I have with me the maestro, Christopher Daisy. [singing] Hello. [laughs] [singing] Is it me you're looking for? Or is it... That's Lionel Richie, right? Yeah, baby. Oh, man. 40:35 He still looks exactly the same. I know. It's kinda creepy. It's weird how people, uh- Mm-hmm... look the same like that after decades. Plastic surgery probably helps. Yeah, maybe. 40:48 Uh, so, well, the-- he came back from, like, nowhere. His daughter was more famous than he was and then. Can't keep Lionel down. No way. Uh, the trains are also very popular, Lionel trains. 41:00 [laughs] But we promised a Funduro update, and, uh, Chris brought up a interesting point, is that this is the third, our Grand Fun- our upcoming Grand Funduro Beach Ride and Ball is the third in the series. 41:16 The first one was just the Beach Funduro. Mm-hmm. That was really cool because, uh, that, uh, bandshell was a lot of fun to play in. Um, my band played. We had another band. Mm-hmm. 41:27 And, uh, really awesome beach right up there in Port Washington. Mike Jipe's band. Oh, okay. Oh. Yeah. And, uh, and we had snow the night before. 41:37 [laughs] And then it turned out to be, like, a really pretty, beautiful, [laughs] sunny day. Yeah. It was a little chilly, but fine and, uh, was that, like, April, I think it was, wasn't it? Right. Yeah. All right. 41:46 So that's-- The springtime kicked off with that one, and then we decided that was a lot of fun. We should do another one. 41:52 And then we had a Rodeo Funduro, which I had completely blocked from my memory somehow- [laughs]... and/or. Yeah, that one was country themed. Uh, so we had a good friend of mine, Scott Mears, do his, uh, country review. 42:04 We had some fun activities at that one. It was at the Silver Lake, uh, Mountain Bike Trails. Beautiful summer day. Yours truly won the goat roping contest. Indeed. Pretty proud of myself. With, with good form. 42:16 I mean, it wasn't just like-- wa- [laughs] it wasn't like you were the best of the worst. You were- [laughs] You qualified for the National Goat Roping Rodeo that day. Oh. Yeah. 42:26 Well, all I did was watch some YouTube videos and practice in the backyard with my kids a couple times. [laughs] Roping the kids to get a trophy. Yep. It's a good time. Yep. 42:37 And then so we thought we'd cap it off at the beginning of, uh, fat bike season with an even grander idea, the Grand Funduro. 42:46 Uh, we happened toBe kind of partnering up with the Illinois Beach Hotel down there that's right smack dab in the middle of all our riding action. 42:54 So it's like, "Hey, why not try to go inside the hotel this time and- Yeah... see what kind of fun mayhem we can- And what a surprise when we went [laughs] inside that hotel of, like, really how nice it is, right? 43:04 It is, yeah. It's, uh... The, the view you definitely can't beat. It's right out on the lake. Uh, most of the rooms, I think, have little balconies. And, uh, it's a nice place. It's got a really nice pool. 43:16 It's got nice workout rooms. It's a little hidden- Really big pool... hidden gem, kind of. 43:21 Yeah, it's really kind of the, the ideal venue to have mountain bikers, fat bikers that are married and have kids bring their whole family with. Sure. And the kids can play in the pool- Mm-hmm... 43:35 uh, the game room, et cetera. Yeah, the overall idea is to try to, uh, you know, bring our crowd to the hotel and show them that this is a really cool place to stay even on their own or a little weekend trip, getaway. 43:46 It's close enough to Chicago and Milwaukee to make a day of it or make a couple days out of it, and, uh, there's some great riding in this area. I'm really a, a lifelong, uh, fan of Lake Michigan. Mm-hmm. 43:59 I've, I've grown up along the shores of that lake, and it's always been [laughs] one of my dreams of things to do, is to see the sunrise over Lake Michigan. Mm-hmm. 44:10 And I can probably count on both hands how many times I've actually seen it- Right... rise [laughs] over Lake Michigan, because I like to sleep and stuff. Oh, I try to make it. 44:19 I'm only a couple, few miles away, and so sometimes it's like, all right- Right... I'm gonna hop on my bike and get, make it down there. 44:23 And it's usually a little easier this time of year, 'cause it's, like, 6:30 in the morning- Yeah... and it's still dark out. [laughs] It is ridiculously- [laughs]... 44:31 you know, how close you are and you, and, you know, how... In my past anyway, in my younger years, I never went there. Mm-hmm. You know? 44:38 Maybe in high school we used to ride our bikes down to Evanston and go to the beach at Northwestern University. Yeah. But then as an adult, you got WRK, you got kids, you got this or that, and you don't get out there. 44:50 But my point of all this is that if you stay at that hotel, I will come and knock on your door. [laughs] And we will all go out there and maybe go for a swim. Oh, yeah. There's all kinds of fun things we could do. 45:04 We could do a polar plunge if we, uh, feel it's necessary. Yeah. It'd be more like an otter plunge or something though- [laughs]... 'cause w- it'd be cold. Maybe a duck plunge. Duck plunge. 45:13 Just dip your junk in the, in the lake and then run to your room- [laughs]... or to the hot tub. These are all bad ideas. You know what? 45:21 [laughs] I had a really good idea, though, that I've probably talked up, is chaining people together to be the icebreaker at, uh... Have I shared this idea with you? No. 45:30 You obviously, you haven't listened to that last show- [laughs]... 'cause we talked about it, like, cutting links of chain. Uh-huh. Just, like, screen door chain. Right. You know, it doesn't have to really hold anything. 45:40 Yeah. Uh, getting a bunch of padlocks, taking all the keys out of those padlocks. Mm-hmm. When two couples or four pe- or every two people... Like, you don't, you wouldn't be attached to your wife. 45:54 You would be attached to someone else. [laughs] Right? So you lock those two people together, and you say, "Go, mingle. Find... And here's two random keys." [laughs] Right? They don't work in your lock. 46:05 Make sure that they don't work in your... Or no, only one random [laughs] key, 'cause they only have one lock, but two chain, uh, one, two people. 46:11 So, and they would walk around to the party and be like, "Hey, how's it going? Uh, awkward situation here. I'm locked to this, this random person over here." And, uh- I think, um, if we're gonna- [laughs]... 46:24 do something like that- Yeah... there's gonna have to be some very large prize incentive- [laughs]... to drive people to wanna do it. 46:31 [laughs] Well, the problem is, is it's just gonna, you know, be- Well, and conversely-... like, difficult... 46:35 I don't know that you wanna start locking different husbands and wives to- Yeah, you don't think that's a good idea? Um- You think it has too much, too much, too much bondage? I think you're making people nervous. Yeah. 46:45 [laughs] I think we should... Let's, let- All right... you know what? You know what that's a good one for is maybe, like, the rodeo, uh, because that's, like, an outdoor- Outdoor... 46:54 chaining together kind of- We're not at a hotel- Yeah... where people could get the wrong idea- Right... and disappear and come back three hours later. It's like, "Who's got our key?" Yeah. Yeah. 47:02 [laughs] With all of their clothes, like, bundled up around the locked part. [laughs] "We can't get out." Except for their bottoms, 'cause those would come right off. Oh. Yeah. Unless we chain their ankles together. 47:12 You had talked about this being a family-friendly event, so maybe- Oh, yeah. That, true. [laughs] Maybe we shift gears. But see, I, I, I didn't have dirty thoughts about it. Oh, okay. 47:20 I was just like, it's a way to get people who are, you know, taught from birth, "Don't talk to strangers"- Right... to talk to strangers, to be like, "Uh, could you unlock me from this dude? 47:32 Um, my name's Gary, and I like bikes." [laughs] Or whatever. But yeah. Well, usually, um, alcohol does the trick, but, you know, whatever. [laughs] So we're not gonna... 47:43 So again, this is what I said in the [laughs] last show, so we're not gonna do that. [laughs] It's just an idea. But we would like, you know, people to be, uh... We do, we did have somebody... 47:52 The, the reason it came up is because, uh, Patty Glines-Kottecki had said, somebody asked her if it's gonna be cliquey. Cliquey. Oh, no. 48:00 No, I mean, other than our big fat bike clique, which is a whole bunch of fun people that are super nice. Right. 48:06 So- I mean, everybody's, everybody's got two arms and two legs and puts their pants on or takes them off [laughs] one leg at a time. Here I go again. This is why people get the wrong idea about me. 48:17 Well, one thing we are gonna do, though, is come up with some fun bike-related games to sort of do throughout the ride and have some cool little prizes to hand out for winner chicken dinner. 48:27 I just, I just brought two boxes of schwag- Mm-hmm... to, uh- So get a schwag bag if you, uh, you know, successfully complete a wheelie contest or a derby or jump- Right... jump that log or whatever thing. 48:41 I'm working on a pair of studded tires for the best-dressed/costume at theElegant cocktail party Ah, yeah. 48:52 And I mean, you know, the party is gonna be a mix of wear what you want, 'cause some people probably come straight off their bikes. Right. [laughs] Which is fine. Yeah. 49:00 You can wear spandex, you can wear a suit, you can wear Aquaman costumes. I don't care. Yeah. A dinner jacket would be nice. Dinner jackets are cool if you're the right, you know- Tuxedos... guy who can pull that off. 49:11 Um, thrift shop suitage. Yes. Um, you have a, you do have a velvet paisley tuxedo. That's what I was planning on wearing. Thanks for spoiling the surprise. Well, I've been, I've been, uh, spoiling that surprise [laughs] 49:27 since, since I've, since I envisioned you in that atrium, since I walked into that atrium and saw a grand piano. Oh, I know. 49:33 It's weird, every time I see you, there's a grand piano, 'cause there's a grand piano right behind Chris right now. Yes. I'm kinda into them. Is it a baby grand? Uh, this one's an actual grand. Yeah. Yeah. 49:44 There isn't actually... D- uh, does a baby grand actually come with a baby? [laughs] Mine did not. [laughs] That's, uh, I have one in the other room, though. [laughs] A baby or a baby grand? Baby grand. 49:54 My babies are at school. Oh, right. Yeah. Well- [laughs]... so what we'd, what we'd really like you guys to do, if you're planning on coming, is to register. It's free. Mm-hmm. 50:06 And you could, uh, you could actually, you know, well, it's actually, I'm gonna... You could've won something. 50:13 [laughs] But the reason, the reason that we, we want you to register, if you're coming, is so that the hotel knows how many hors d'oeuvres to prepare for that party. Mm-hmm. 50:22 And they need to know how much staffing to have on. So right now we have 40-something, 43 people registered. Mm-hmm. And we have 315 interested- [laughs] I hate the interested button for this reason... 50:35 on the, on the Facebook. [laughs] But it means that they get all our updates. Yeah. I mean- Yeah... they're still, they're s- may- they're on the fence. Right. So if you're on the fence- Yeah... 50:41 one of those people, and you'd like to come, and you'd like to have a tasty hors d'oeuvre- Mm-hmm... and not have to wait 10 minutes to get a beer and/or a cocktail... 50:51 See, 'cause the, the hotel is gonna say, "Oh, well, you got 40 people? We're gonna put one bartender behind the bar." And then- Get two... if we get 80 people, you're gonna wait for your drinks. Right. 51:03 And the hotel's gonna be like, "Ah, you guys don't know what you're doing." [laughs] So, uh, which, which is really kinda closer to the truth, but [laughs] when it comes to- So much true... 51:13 yeah, when it comes to running a cocktail party, we don't know. So that's why the hotel's kinda in charge. But it would be helpful to the hotel if we told them how many people were coming to drink. 51:23 We've already told them that you all can drink a lot. [laughs] That they'll literally be amazed at the amount of beer that you guys can drink, so you know, the gauntlet's been thrown down. For sure. 51:36 And, uh, yeah, you know, we've, um, been doing group rides and fun events like this for some time, and we just keep trying to take it up a level, so hopefully everybody comes out. 51:45 You don't have to necessarily stay overnight. There's, uh, things going on Friday evening, Saturday, and Sunday in the Zion area. 51:53 Uh, Surly is gonna come out and do a little pre-party at our shop from 6:00 to 8:00 on Friday. And what does that, what does that entail? 51:59 I know that, uh- I think that's Aaron basically blasting some metal tunes and us drinking some Surly beer. You know, he's a percussionist. Yeah. He's got a rad b- band. Right. Right, right. Yeah. 52:10 [laughs] And, uh, I, I thought maybe you guys would, uh, you know, throw down a little live music. Eh, nothing's maybe impossible. We'll see what- Maybe, you know, like, uh, ex-Uncle unplugged for MTV. Oh, soft uncle? 52:26 [laughs] That's our- Oh.... that's our coffee shop version of- [laughs] It's that double X band that had to practice really quiet and all their songs kinda sound a little hushed. 52:38 We did a, uh, show one time for a friend of Barry's, uh, who was, like, running for some political office- Yeah... and it was like [laughs] 52:46 in some hall where we had to, like, play extra quiet, and it was so hard to do it. [laughs] It was- In the retirement home. Oh, man, it was bad. Oh, local gigs. 52:56 Have you thought about, like, having a band when you and I... I'll probably be dead, but you'll be in the retirement home and, like- Oh, yeah, I can't wait to look like- Like-... 53:04 a white wizard and, like, rock out guitar solos when I'm s- In, in, like, Depends and/or your m- motorized, uh- Yes... mobility scooter. Back and forth on the stage on a Rascal. [laughs] Doing those spins. 53:16 [laughs] 'Cause everything will be cordless. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Even the corded stuff. [laughs] Cordless. But, uh, yeah. Uh, yeah, so it's gonna be fun. And it's, you know, this is a no pressure. 53:27 It's, uh, it's not a race. It's a casual, fun ride. We sh- ride down the beach and check out the cool scenery. Oh, speaking of which, so there are some protected areas in that park. 53:38 It's a beautiful park, but part of it is designated as a nature preserve, and they definitely don't want us trotting around through there. 53:45 So you gotta stick to the beach and stick to the designated bike trails, and we're all golden. Nice. Don't be a rule breaker 'cause they could kick us all out permanently, and we do not want that. 53:55 So just, uh, mind your Ps and Qs when you're on your big old tires, and everything will be peachy. [phone rings] When you're out there doing the- Oh my gosh. Is that my landline? That's the landline. 54:04 Yeah, nobody knows that landline, so that's- Hey, would you like to subscribe to The Daily Herald? [laughs] Uh, that's, that's gonna go on for a little bit. I know. Hold on, I'll take care of that. 54:16 [laughs] So while Chris is gone, I'll just, uh, talk about riding the designated beach on the Surly demo, which starts noon-ish. I, I have a question for Chris on that, though, so- Okay. Um, oh, he's, Chris is back. Yes. 54:34 He subscribed to The Daily Herald, by the way. Yeah. And, uh, even- I got my car's, uh, warranty extended just now. Oh, excellent. [laughs] So the Surly demo, is that gonna happen at the hotel at the beach? Yes. Nice. 54:46 Yeah. Um, so you'll be able to jump on a- Mm-hmm... sparkly pink ice cream truck or a you're in the Navy now blueWednesday Yep And ride the beach right from the location and bring it back and- Mm-hmm... 55:01 then sidle up to the bar, order yourself a cocktail, maybe, you know- Yep... try and find yourself a room 'cause you're already dr- drunk. At 4:00, we'll go wheels down. 55:12 We'll, uh, ride probably to the Dead River if the, uh, weather permits. So far there's been a nice little beach stretch, but if the wind blows in off the east, we'll have to change our plans a little bit. 55:22 [laughs] But that's fine. There's plenty more to explore throughout the park. Don't listen to this man. [laughs] He has no idea what he's talking about. I just don't wanna put people in danger of washing out to sea. 55:31 Oh, yeah, riptides. Yeah. Isn't that, isn't that that guy that throws confetti? That's Riptor. That's Riptor. [laughs] Yeah. Which, yeah, you wish you were in a riptide. 55:43 But anyway, group riding and, uh, we'll probably make our way up into the Winthrop Harbor area. That's the north end of the park. Uh, we're gonna work out a little food deal with, uh, Time Out- Right... 55:55 Sports Pub up there so we'll have a s- bite to eat when we, uh, get to our halfway mark, and then buzz back to the hotel in time to get the ballroom party started and, uh- 56:06 And there is, there is- Trip the light fandango... there is a, a ho- a, a hotel restaurant as well. 56:11 Yes, so if you wanna lay back and not, you know, continue to ride to the other food destination, you can get a nice meal at the hotel, take a dip in the pool. Right. Do, do whatever you want and- Pre-party... uh, yeah. 56:23 Put your makeup on. Right. Hang out in your- Whatever you gotta do... cool hotel room with the lake view that you scored. Yeah. Chk-chk. Watch the sunset. 56:30 Oh, no, we're gonna watch the sunset from the Dead River, aren't we? Kinda. Sunset'll be s- yeah, it'll be setting along the, the ride. Oh, so bring a light, too, because by the end of the, uh, little- Oh, yeah... 56:38 dinner ride it's gonna be pretty dark out. If you go to that gravel ride, you're gonna need a r- [laughs]... you're gonna need a light. I speak from experience here. 56:44 We'll be cruising mostly the t- town back streets and that such on the way back so- And bike trail... yeah, so it'll be somewhat lit if you're like absolutely, "Oh my God, I forgot." So. 56:53 And so you'll be somewhat lit, so. Yeah, you'll be lit. The trail will be lit. [laughs] Right. So bring a light and a blinky and a helmet. Right. And adult diapers if you're in that category. Mm-hmm. 57:06 [laughs] So after that we have a huge party, and at that party we're gonna give prizes away, we're gonna play music, we're gonna drink, we're gonna- I'm hoping... 57:15 I, I've got my, uh, ace mechanic who's also a DJ on the side, um, Mr. DJ Nice, gonna be pumping out some good danceable tunes. So my, my vision for this is the, you know, John Travolta cover that we've got on the poster. 57:31 Mm-hmm. You know, if you guys don't make a Soul Train line at some point in the evening- [laughs]... I'm gonna be sorely disappointed. [laughs] I have been working on my dance moves. Good. Good, good. For reals. Nice. 57:42 Uh, yeah. Mm-hmm. So you got that. You, you know, get those video cameras ready. And the next morning, you know, shake it all off. Uh, check out of there. Our shop opens at 11:00. 57:51 We'll have some beverages and food to kinda wake you up and- I think you glossed right over the, uh, the hangover derby- Oh, yeah... and the Garage Roasting Coffee Roasters- Oh, right... coffee. 58:03 So yeah, wake up in the morning. 58:04 My good friend, uh, Thomas Cray, he, uh, roasts this stuff right out of his garage, hence Garage Coffee, but he usually comes to the shop and barters, uh, bike parts for it, and we oblige with- Nice. 58:14 He's got a state-of-the-art coffee roasting- [laughs]... operation- He does... in his garage. Yeah, it's pretty cool. So, uh, he'll be brewing up some cups. 58:21 Uh, we'll do a little morning derby and, uh, [clears throat] then it's, uh, hopefully if conditions are right, I'd love to take everybody through Beulah Park because we've got some new signage up in there. 58:32 We've got some new trail markers. It's a fun little single-track park. And, um, if not, we'll just do wheelies all afternoon or something. 58:40 Is there any truth to the, to the, uh, rumor that Beulah Park was just a misspelling of, named after a Ferris Bueller? No, but just about no one can pronounce it when they see it spelled. 58:51 [laughs] It's like, "What's that, Buller Park?" Buller. Bl- Boiler? [laughs] Yeah. I like Ferris Bueller. Bueller. Bueller. But then, uh, so brunch. Mm-hmm. Another ride maybe to the beach, maybe to Beulah Park. Mm-hmm. 59:07 And then, uh- We'll have sales and deals and stuff if you need stuff for your bike, and, uh- Yeah... we're gonna close up at 3:00, and everybody can go home with their stories of glory and adventure. Zion Cyclery 59:20 is one of the few bike shops I can walk around in and be like, "Ooh, look at that. Ooh, look at that." Yeah. [laughs] "Ooh, look at that." 59:27 We do have cool stuff in stock, so if you've never been there, we've got, you know- And there'll be, uh, there'll be interesting new stuff. 59:33 Yeah, we do have some new models, uh, and we carry Salsa and Specialized and Trek and, uh, Santa Cruz and- Felt... Felt and, uh, a few other oddballs here and there. Nice. So yeah, it's cool. It's fun. 59:47 I'd like, I'd like one of those oddball fat bikes. You, you probably own a couple already. [laughs] I do. I, I think about buying more all the time. 59:58 [laughs] I was working on a shirt that says, "My other bike is three other bikes." Yeah. I, yeah, I- For teams... think I saw a design of that or something somewhere. Yeah. So register. 1:00:07 We'll have a, we'll have a little, uh, thing in the show notes. Uh, we, we have sponsors. Mm-hmm. Uh, Surly Bikes is the largest sponsor. We have 45NRTH. We have PDW, Portland Design Works. 1:00:20 We've got the Illinois Beach Hotel. Mm-hmm. Uh, there is the ever popular Zion Cyclery and the fat-bike.com. Who am I missing? Bikestud.com. Ah. Yeah, they were recent. Uh, Surface also. Surface. Yeah. 1:00:33 You, you've yet to do the, uh... We've gotta make some sort of, like, alien video for that, and goodie bag goodie s- come from Surface. Yep. I know we're missing somebody. 1:00:44 So if you, uh, do register for the event and get a hotel room, we are giving away also a beach cruiser that I customized myself. Oh, yeah. And you'll automatically get one of these goodie bags if you're a hotel guest. 1:00:59 The rest of you will have to earn them through prize wars. Right. Unless50 people register for rooms, and then we'll figure something else out for prizes. [laughs] If that happens, that's a good problem. Because- Yeah. 1:01:09 [laughs] 'Cause by then all those free registrations are gonna stack up, and we're gonna cash those in for something. I know it. I'm gonna have to print out a million gift cards to my shop if [laughs]... 1:01:20 this is gonna happen. [laughs] So that's it. That's the Grand Fonduro Beach Ride and Ball update for this week. Come have fun with us. We're n- we don't bite hard. Much. We're fun people. Yeah, fun on bikes. Mm-hmm. 1:01:39 And now we take you to an interview with Liz Sampie. She's doing crazy stuff, so stand by for more. [upbeat music] Hey, we're back, and we have an extra special guest with us. 1:01:55 Please welcome to the program outdoor adventurer, fat bike film star, Liz Sampie. Hey, Gomez. Thanks for having me. [laughs] So do you like Liz, Elizabeth, Elizabeth, Beth or- [laughs]... 1:02:08 some other derivation of your highly versatile name? Very versatile. Um, I mean, I go by a lot of things. Elizabeth works. A lot of friends call me Liz. I also go by Eliza, or in Español, me llamo Elisa. 1:02:22 [laughs] See, I knew there was, I [laughs] I knew there was, uh, an, an... Or F, all of the above. Yes. [laughs] So- Totally. Elizabeth is- Um-... 1:02:34 is getting ready for a little bike tour starting in Pakistan and heading into the, uh, Himalayas across India and ending- Mm-hmm... 1,500 miles later in Nepal. 1:02:44 She's gonna be riding fat bikes and packrafting white water rivers with her amigo, Rob Bart. So- Yes... that's, that's pretty amazing. I, I guess we should- [laughs]... 1:02:56 let our listeners know a little bit about what brought you, what... Tell us about your bicycle life from- Okay. [laughs] You know, from tricycle onward or wherever you wanna jump in there. Yeah, right on. 1:03:09 So I guess just a little background, um, so I am a professional endurance athlete. 1:03:15 Um, I do ultra bike packing races, and I do expeditions all around the world involving always some sort of bicycle, um, mountain bike or fat bike, depending on my terrain, and also packrafting, sometimes running, backcountry skiing. 1:03:28 Uh, so that's kind of, kind of what I do. I also own a coaching business called Vital Motion, uh, where I work with other people also wanting to do adventures. 1:03:36 And my journey actually started in the backwoods of Minnesota. Oh, nice. So I [laughs] yeah, I'm in, I'm a Midwestern farm kid. I definitely didn't grow up running up and down mountains or anything like that. 1:03:49 I grew up riding horses and riding my bike through the woods, and it really started out with the bicycle being a vehicle for freedom for me. 1:03:58 So the farm I grew up on was about 10 miles from the nearest town, and we lived in the woods, and there were tons of trails all around. 1:04:05 And so my siblings and I would ride our horses and ride our bikes on these trails, and bikes were a lot easier than horses to tie up in town when we wanted to go to the Dairy Queen, so. [laughs] Nice. 1:04:17 Yeah, so that's, that's kinda how my bike adventure started. Um, I started mountain biking pretty seriously when I was about 15. Mm-hmm. 1:04:24 And then I moved to Colorado when I was 17, graduated high school and, and shot straight out to Colorado to be in the mountains. I'd, I'd never been there, but I just decided that's where I wanted to be. Cool. 1:04:35 Um, and my first, my first mountain bike, my, my dad said, "Do you want, you want a car or a bicycle out in college?" And I said, I said, "I want a mountain bike." And so he got me a TT Outpost. 1:04:45 That was my first mountain bike. Cool. Yeah. Just started, started riding out there and then, uh, started... Actually, I didn't start racing until graduate school. 1:04:54 I was about 24 when I started racing bikes, and I'm 37 now, so it's been kind of a long, fun road and, uh, yeah, kinda, kinda g- uh, you know, nutshell story, but that's how I started out. Cool. 1:05:08 So how did you meet Greg Mattes from Fatback Bikes and become a, a sponsored Fatback rider? Yeah. So, [laughs] so I was living in Crested Butte. Let's see, this was 20, hmm, 2013 or 2014. 1:05:22 I think it was winter of 2014, and I was living in Crested Butte, and I was still racing mountain bikes during the summer. 1:05:30 And I was sick of training on the trainer in my house because in Crested Butte it's winter like nine months of the y- the year or something like that. Not really, but, you know. Right. It just seems like that. 1:05:39 [laughs] Cold and snowy. Yeah, yeah, totally. You know, I was, I was sick of sitting on the trainer. Right. And I'm, you know, I'm a backcountry skier, a ski mountaineer. 1:05:46 That's, that's kind of my, my first love was actually backcountry skiing when I first moved to Colorado. And 1:05:52 in Crested Butte it's really hard to reach kind of the bigger mountain ski terrain without a snowmobile, and I didn't have a snowmobile, and I didn't really have any desire to get a snowmobile, and I was sick of riding the trainer. 1:06:02 So I had this idea that maybe I could use fat bikes to carry my skis on my back and ride out these roads that had snow on them, but, you know, were snow machined, and access the big mountain ski terrain. 1:06:14 And so that led me to contact Greg with Fatback- Mm-hmm... and pitch this idea to him. And I was like, "Hey, like, 1:06:22 what do you think about me, you know, getting this fat bike and using it to, uh, to go backcountry skiing with?" And, and Fatback was into it, and so they sent me a fat bike. And so I started... 1:06:32 Really, I didn't, I didn't really have any, um, 1:06:35 any mentors in, you know, what I was calling, like, bike to ski at the time, so it was a lot of trial and error and a lot of, like, you know, packing my bike the wrong way and ending up just digging in my rear tire when I was trying to ride. 1:06:48 And, you know, I was posting all this stuff on social media about, you know, what I was trying to do with this bike. You're the mother- And- You're the mother of winter biathlon fat bike backcountry skiing. 1:06:59 [laughs] Yeah. I mean, it was, there was really nobody else doing it, uh, you know, that I knew of. I'm sure there, I'm sure other people were doing it, right? 1:07:07 But, like, I didn't really know of any, so yeah, just kinda making it up.Cool. That's awesome. And so in... Yeah, so like winter of 2014, I get this call from this guy named Anthony, 1:07:17 and he said, "Hey, uh, my name's Anthony." I know Anthony. And I'm like, "I'm, I'm watching- " Yeah. Yeah. I'm like... He's like, "What, what are you... What's this Bike the Sea thing that you're doing?" 1:07:27 And I told him what, you know, what it was, and he's like, "You know nobody else is doing this." And I was like, "Yeah, I can't find any partners." 1:07:33 [laughs] And so he told me that he was from the film company called First Track Productions. Mm-hmm. And he invited me to go and ride for his fat bike film in Iceland. Nice. And- That's cool. 1:07:47 Yeah, and Fatback was, yeah, Fatback was one of the sponsors of the film, and so that next summer, so June I believe it was of 2015, I went with my, my Fatback to Iceland to ride for this film that was called Off the Beaten Path. 1:08:03 I know. I was supposed to go on that trip. [laughs] And that's where Greg and I actually met. Uh, and- Oh, really? Well, yeah. We sent, uh, Dirty from Drunk Cyclist- Yep... in my place. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. 1:08:14 I did not know that. Okay, that's, that's a funny connection. So that's where Dirty and I actually met as well, and he and I are like best friends now. Nice. Yeah, he's a cool dude. We met for the first time in Iceland. 1:08:22 Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, that's, that's the first time I met Greg. 1:08:26 That's the first time I met Dirty, and you know, we were there for like 10 days and, and filming and, you know, in Iceland it's light all day and all night in the summer. Right. 1:08:35 So we were just getting after it and- And so you've met- I had so much fun. [laughs] You've, you've met my friend Pasmaje. Our mutual friend Pasmaje- Yeah... probably. Uh-huh. Yep. Yeah, such a talented rider. Yep. 1:08:46 Um, he was... Oh my gosh, he's amazing. Yeah, that was, that was a fun trip with him and, and we're such, we're such different styles of riders, you know? 1:08:52 I'm the endurance rider and he's the trials rider and, and it was really cool to watch him. Like he's just- Yeah... so, so talented and- [laughs]... 1:08:59 you know, you see the things he does and you think, "Oh, that kid's a wig nut." But then you hang out with him and you watch him, and he's so calculated with what he does on a bike, and it's just really cool. 1:09:09 And he's such a cool guy. He's also Midwestern. He's from Wisconsin. Yeah. I, I, I live right by where he lives, so in Wisconsin. Yeah. Oh, right on. That's awesome. 1:09:19 I met him at a ride, just a, at a group ride and, uh, [laughs] I was like, "Oh, nice move, dude." Somebody told me later. Yeah, right? "Oh yeah, that guy's like the..." 1:09:28 At that time I think he was like only the six-time and now he's like the 10-time national champion- Yeah... in bike trials. I was like, "Oh, well yeah, yeah, he probably- Uh-huh [laughs]... 1:09:38 does even better stuff than that." I love that place. [laughs] So y- Yeah. Totally. You have- So wait, you live... You're in Wisconsin or Minnesota? No, Wisconsin. You're in Wisconsin. Okay, cool. Right on. Yep, between, 1:09:51 uh, between Madison and Milwaukee, out here in the country. Estlin. But, uh- Yeah, right on. [laughs] Nobody wants to hear about me, Liz. They wanna hear about- [laughs] 1:10:02 They, they wanna kn- know about this trip, and so, uh, this isn't just a, a fat bike multiple day, uh, wilderness tour. 1:10:13 It is also a, uh, packrafting, and you up until recently hadn't been a packrafter, but you met Rob, the whitewater shaman. Why don't you tell us about- [laughs]... the true story of how you met Rob. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 1:10:30 So, uh, so Rob and I actually met about five years ago at a mutual, mutual friend's wedding. So my, the bride was my best friend from college and my first adventure partner. 1:10:40 We met, you know, like my second day of college, and the groom was one of Rob's expedition partners, kayak partners. He's been all over the world kayaking with this guy. So- I think I've-... 1:10:50 we initially met five years ago. I think I've seen this on the Hallmark Channel. [laughs] This... I think they ripped your story off, man. Well, I mean- No, I'm j-... Ryan, you need to hit me up with some Hallmark. 1:11:01 [laughs] Sorry, I'm just, [laughs] I'm just interjecting humor. Sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. 1:11:06 No, so that's, that's how we met and, uh, you know, we kind of followed each other over the years a little bit, and then last winter... So I was actually doing some stuff with packrafts before. Mm-hmm. 1:11:17 But nothing, nothing that crazy. I was more using them to do, you know, river crossing and, uh, I did a trip in Alaska with a packraft where I was running some, you know, class two big water. 1:11:28 I didn't really know what I was doing on that trip. I kind of realized that I probably should have died. Um. [laughs] And that's like, I'm, I'm like half joking, you know? I, it was fine. Oh, I know. 1:11:40 But I was like, "What?" People, people die out there all the time. I, uh- I know. And they, they tell stories like, "Oh yeah, we were... I had a small leak in my packraft and my... I couldn't feel my legs and, and..." 1:11:51 Oh, God. It's like, oh yeah, good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:11:53 [laughs] I mean, you know, I, I learned how to packraft before that and it was totally fine, but you know, I just, I just realized I didn't have the skills that I really wanted to have to do what I wanted to do in a packraft, and so, so Rob actually contacted me early this winter because he saw that I was doing stuff with packrafts. 1:12:09 Mm-hmm. And he's an expedition kayaker, so he's been doing kayak expeditions all over the world. He's got first ascents in like 16 different countries, you know, over the past decade plus. 1:12:18 And so he was interested in, in my experience with the packraft, and I, I was interested in his, uh, his expertise just in whitewater. And so I headed to the Pacific Northwest this summer and literally have spent... 1:12:31 I, I'm back in Colorado right now, but I spent the summer in Hood River and White Salmon with Rob training my butt off in the whitewater and basically having him school me on all these skills that I never had before. 1:12:42 Nice. So it's been, it's been scary. [laughs] I was definitely captain of the swim team pretty much all summer. Um. [laughs] Yeah. I hear you there. 1:12:51 So- Um, but it was, it was fun, and I actually, I just took a swiftwater rescue course in, in Durango, Colorado, so that, that was really helpful as well for my confidence. Yeah. Cool. 1:13:00 Uh, so packrafts have come a long way in a very short amount of time. Why don't you tell us about the rig that you'll be paddling on this adventure? Yeah. Okay. So, um-I am an ambassador for Alpacka packraft. 1:13:14 I, I am- And you've seen- I'm a owner myself. I have one. Oh, cool. Nice. When, when they only had one model just a couple of years ago. [laughs] Oh, good times. So go ahead. Totally. Oh my gosh. Yeah. 1:13:23 So now they have so many. So I typically paddle one called the Expedition, uh, in white water. 1:13:28 But for this trip, we're actually taking a, a boat called the Forager, and this is actually a two-person packraft that's meant for hunting caribou- Hmm... or running, like, huge white water. 1:13:38 Like it's run the Grand Canyon, uh, with a lot of gear. And so our decision with that was kind of twofold. So because our trip is winter in the Himalayas, we're gonna have a lot of winter gear. 1:13:48 We're both gonna have dry suits. We're both gonna have paddles, PFEs, all this stuff, right? Mm-hmm. So we decided that to save space, we would take one two-person raft instead of two one-person rafts. 1:14:00 And then the other part of that is that the rivers that we're gonna be running are pretty huge, and I personally don't have that comfort level to be able to run massive white water with a bicycle in my own boat. 1:14:12 So that'll allow us to both have the power for paddling those big rapids- Mm-hmm... and more of Rob's ability to really navigate those. He knows rivers much, much better than I do. So- Right on... 1:14:22 yeah, we're taking the two-person route. I'm feeling a little, I'm feeling a little [laughs] more comfortable. [laughs] Like I, I, I read your, your, the notes on your trip and I'm just like, "This girl's gonna die." 1:14:37 [laughs] You know, the whole, the kind of like fatherly protective thing comes out. Like how... Are you, are you sure [laughs] you're okay with this? Are you sure you can do this? Are you crazy? 1:14:48 Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a little crazy, but y- but yeah. I mean, I think, I think it's possible that I could do it in my own boat, but I mean the... I don't know. 1:14:57 Like I'm getting, I'm just getting comfortable right now running like solid class III. Mm-hmm. Um, but the rivers over there are so big. 1:15:03 And so- So what are the ratings on the river o- uh, I know the US rating's one through V, and VI- Yeah... is unpassable, right? One through VI. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. So it's the same. 1:15:13 Um, so we're gonna be running mostly class III. Um, some rapids will be III plus and IV. Um, I'm a little nervous about the class IV stuff, honestly. I mean, it's still, it's still a small boat. 1:15:24 Um, you know, we still both have to do a lot of work to navigate it. Mm-hmm. Rob is super confident. So you know, I definitely wouldn't be confident running class IV on my own. 1:15:32 Um, and you know, I definitely trust his judgment in the white water. So- Well, that's-... yeah, class III, IV... that's pretty amazing. 1:15:38 So your, your Forager boat, is that gonna have a full skirt on it, or is it, is it a self-bailing boat or... I mean- Okay. Okay, okay. Okay. W- imagine a two-person skirt. Oh, okay. [laughs] And you're connected. 1:15:53 [laughs] So... [laughs] Which should, which should, you know, offer a lot of comedic, uh- Oh my God. Oh my God... video clips, right? [laughs] I know. So this does not actually exist. 1:16:03 We do not have a two-person skirt, but [laughs] Oh, okay. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] We had a good laugh about this when we were actually discussing this. Uh-huh. 1:16:12 And then Rob, you know, we're having this like serious discussion, and then Rob stops and he's like, "Wait a minute, that would not work." [laughs] We'd be like those, you know- It would work comedically. 1:16:23 [laughs] But otherwise, no. Like those dragon, like those dragon people in the Chinese parades that, you know- [laughs]... have like the 10 people. You know who I'm talking about? 1:16:32 [laughs] [sighs] So yeah, it would be, "Okay, left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot." [laughs] So you're gonna have some sort of overlapping, shingling type of a skirt that, that works out? Yeah. No. Nope. 1:16:45 So the boat is a self-bailer actually. Okay. Um, which means- So just water just goes through, right? Water just goes through. Yeah. And, uh, we're gonna get soaked. Um, but obviously we're in dry suits. 1:16:55 You know, it's Himalayan glacial white water. So we have... We're gonna have full dry suits. Um, water will just pour in and it'll pour right back out. Cool. So yeah. And two bikes in there, one on- Yep... 1:17:06 the front deck and one on the rear deck? Or one on the front deck, one in the middle? How's that work? Yeah. No. So, so I actually spent a lot of time at Alpacka last week, um, figuring this out. 1:17:16 So what we're gonna do is essentially put the two frames on the bow. Mm-hmm. Um, basically so when you, when you put a bike on a packraft, the seat and the handlebars are facing out. Mm-hmm. 1:17:27 Uh, and the fork and the chainstays are facing you as the paddler. Mm-hmm. And you're, you know, drivetrain side up obviously. And so we're gonna put both bikes essentially flipped, uh, like a, like a frame sandwich. 1:17:38 Mm-hmm. And then the wheels are going to go in a wheel stack on the stern. So all four wheels tied on the back and then two frames on the front. Oh, cool. So, uh- Yeah. And then the gear- Here's-... 1:17:49 the, the packraft has a T zip, so all the gear is gonna actually go in the tubes of the raft. So that'll leave a lot of space. Right on. Yep. That's, that's the... 1:17:57 I don't have that on my boat either, but they did offer it at the time. Kinda kick myself that I didn't do that now. Yeah. Yeah, they're nice. But you can get it added. 1:18:04 So here's the part that every one of our listeners has been saying, "I don't care about the boat. Tell me about the damn bikes." [laughs] Yeah. So what, what kind of a... Are you, are you riding a fatback? Are you... 1:18:17 What- Mm-hmm. Tell, tell us all about every bit of your bike. [laughs] All about the bicycles. Okay. So yeah, I mean, obviously I'm a Fatback athlete for a reason. I love their bikes. 1:18:29 Um, I've got a Corvus, uh, FLT in an extra small- Mm-hmm... um, which is a four-inch bike, and I've ridden that on a couple expeditions now, and that is the bike that I'm gonna be riding on the trip. 1:18:40 Um, I do have a Lauf fork on the front, and I've had that since the day I got my bike. Um, we are using Schwalbe Jumbo Jim tires, four inches. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 1:18:52 So the tire choice is kind of tough because we don't know how much, how much snow we're gonna be getting up in Pakistan. You know, it's, it's gonna be mid to late November by the time we get up there. 1:19:03 Right now it's early October, I think. Yeah. Right. And, uh, and, you know, so it's kind of hard to know, like are they gonna be getting a lot of snow? Is it gonna be dry but cold? 1:19:12 And so, you know, talking with Fuzzy over at Fatback, we kind of figured that those four-inch Jumbo Jims, you know, they're, they're lightweight, they're fast rollingUm, you know, but with the four inches, if we do get a good amount of snow, they're gonna be fine for that as well. 1:19:25 Um, so that was kind of the choice on that. Cool. Um- Whose bags are you using? [laughs] That's a really good question. I actually don't know yet. Aha. Bag makers out there. Yeah. I've got... I know, right? 1:19:36 So I've got a mishmash of bike packing bags from all the stuff I've done over the years. Um, because my expeditions are so weird, I did, I did one to Puerto Rico a couple years ago- Mm-hmm... 1:19:46 uh, solo, where I circumnavigated the Puerto Rican coastline with that bike and packraft. Um, because my expeditions are kind of weird, I've just always kind of had to use this mishmash of bags. 1:19:56 So I've got stuff from Rogue Panda. I've got stuff from Defiant Pack. I've got some stuff from Revelate. Um, what I actually think I need is a pair of panniers and a rack. Mm. So I'm still... 1:20:07 Yeah, jury's actually still out on that, and so I'm, I'm definitely still doing a lot of research on that. All right. Well, I'll be- Um- I'll be looking for pictures, uh, on that for sure- Yeah... 1:20:16 'cause that's- Absolutely... that's a big part of it. And having s- an extra small frame, even though the Corvus has a really big, uh, triangle for the size frame it is, it, it does limit the amount. 1:20:30 But, uh, yeah, a rack. A rear rack and some- Yeah... eight-liter dry bag panniers. Um- Yeah, probably something like that... somewhere around there. And I'll probably... Yeah. 1:20:41 And, you know, with the way we're doing the packraft, like, one of us will carry the packraft, and the other one will carry, like, the dry suits, the paddles, the PFDs, all that stuff. 1:20:48 So yeah, it's gonna be a big load, so I think, I think the panniers are gonna be helpful. Um, we're-- I always run, uh, Fast Company handlebars. Do you know about those? No. Tell me about that. So Fast Company is... 1:21:01 Yeah, so they're, they're amazing. So they're a moto company that have just moved into mountain bikes, and what they have is a handlebar that has elastomers in, in both bars. 1:21:10 And they just provide a little bit of articulation and a little bit of, like, micro suspension for the hands and the wrists- Mm-hmm... and the elbows and the shoulders, right? 1:21:18 So, you know, both Rob and I, having been athletes our entire lives, have pretty crappy wrists. Um, multiple crashes. Just, you know, kayaking is hard on you. 1:21:26 And so what these bars do is they really help take away that microtrauma from all the, you know, riding over the rocks and things like that. So we'll both be running those. Cool. Um, yeah. Those are pretty rad. 1:21:37 I ran those in the, in the AZP 750 this past year, and I didn't have any hand or wrist issues. So I, I- And you set the record for that race, if I remember correctly. I did. Yeah, I did. [laughs] That's killer. 1:21:48 It was really fun. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm a fan of those things. So the big, the- Um, yeah, and we'll have split backpacks too. Oh, cool. Nice. Yeah. 1:21:58 We're both running, like, thirty-five liter Osprey backpacks, so lots of stuff on this trip. Well, I'm sure you'll sell it along the way if you don't use it. [laughs] Yeah. Oh, God. I know, right? I'll- Or trade it... 1:22:11 I mean, we won't-- Totally. We won't have anything we don't use, but it's like- For yak butter. I didn't put any of my, [laughs] any of my yak questions in. But, uh- Oh, God... uh, Pak- Pakistan, India, and Nepal. 1:22:25 Tell us about this route. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So routes are obviously quite loose. You know, we spent a ton of time planning and a ton of time drawing lines. I use Gaia GPS, uh, and Google Earth to plan all my expeditions. 1:22:40 And so, you know, we spent like hundreds of hours on this route. 1:22:43 And at the same time, once we get on the ground, when we learn about weather conditions, uh, the terrain, you know, obviously there's a conflict going on right now over Kashmir between Pakistan and India, so I don't know how close to the Line of Control between Pakistan and Kashmir we're going to be able to get. 1:22:59 Um, but we've basically made, like, a, a high route and a low route, which is gonna be dependent on snow and weather. Mm-hmm. 1:23:05 And so we're flying into Islamabad, and we are riding up towards the Hunza Valley, um, Gilgit-Baltistan area, which is where a lot of the climbers go. Um, you know, those huge mountains are up there. 1:23:16 It's the, basically the start of the Karakoram range. And then we will be crossing through the Karakoram range into the Himalayas. 1:23:23 Our idea is to packraft a river called the Neelam River, which is basically gonna bring us out of the Pakistani mountains down to the border at Lahore, which is where we'll cross into India. 1:23:34 Now, this river's pretty close to the Line of Control, so that is a little bit up in the air. Uh, we do have contacts on the ground in Pakistan, and this is, this is so key. 1:23:43 I mean, people ask me about expedition planning all the time, and one of the things I tell them is that having local contacts that are there every day is so, so key. So we've been talking to, you know, local friends. 1:23:54 Uh, my good friend Doom, Steve Fassbinder, he'd been over to Pakistan a couple years ago. Uh, he hooked me up with a good friend of his who's a guide, so he's been giving us some great information. 1:24:04 Um, but the idea is to go down and then cross the border at Lahore and then essentially ride back up into the Himalayas of India, uh, cross the Indian Himalayas, you know, trending north essentially, uh, north and east, and then packrafting the Sharda River, which is on the border of India and Nepal, all the way down to the border crossing at Bhim, and then crossing the border into Nepal and then riding back up into the mountains in Nepal and then packrafting the Karnali River- Mm-hmm... 1:24:31 riding back up into the mountains again, and this time kind of touching the western points of, you know, the Annapurna Circuit that a lot of people ride. Mm-hmm. Um, or ride, excuse me. 1:24:41 And, you know, doing some touring, like just, just bike packing around a little bit of the Dolpo region, the lower Mustang region, and then packrafting the Kali Gandaki River down into essentially the jungle where there's gonna be all sorts of, you know, creatures and things. 1:24:56 [laughs] And then, uh, into Chitwan National Park, and then essentially riding to Kathmandu and flying home. Killer. Yeah. Wow. [laughs] That's... Yeah. That's kind of the route in a nutshell, you know. 1:25:08 And we've got lots of different options just depending on the weather and, uh, and, and just local, local knowledge on the ground when we get there. So yeah. What an undertaking. We'll see. Uh- I know. 1:25:18 [laughs] How many, how many languages do you speak?I only... Well, I am very, very fluent in, um, English. [laughs] I like, I like your accent, your English accent. Very nice. Yeah, totally. It's, it's a good one. 1:25:31 I've, I've worked on it for a long time. [laughs] I've, I've lost my Minnesota, don't you know? You know. Oh, you have. I used to have that Minnesota thing. You dropped right back into it there. [laughs] Oh, totally. 1:25:42 [laughs] Oh, you know. [laughs] Uh, I do, I do speak some Spanish. Um, I've done a few expeditions and spent some time living in Latin America, and so, uh, you know, that as well. Rob also speaks Spanish. 1:25:55 Neither of us speak Pakistani, um, but you know, we can, we can do some, some miming and some, some, uh... What's that game that you do the body language to try to... Pictionary? No. Uh, yeah. Charades. 1:26:09 [laughs] Uh, uh, Charades. Right. [laughs] Well, you know- Yeah... I bet you, uh, I, I will bet you a dollar that you learn some good swears in at least- Oh... three or four languages. [laughs] Oh my gosh. Totally. 1:26:23 On this trip. I am sure that that will happen. Yep. [laughs] Yeah, that'll probably happen when we're pushing, you know, 80 to 100 pounds of load up the hike or bike for- [laughs]... hours. 1:26:34 And, and you know, it, it's funny, Rob will- And then, and then somebody carrying like 10 bales of, of baskets will ride by you on this- Oh... rickety one-speed fixed gear bike going like- Yeah... 1:26:48 swearing at you in, in whatever language- Oh... of their choice. Oh, totally. No, it's so funny. My- Yeah... my very first expedition was, was fat biking in Guatemala, fat biking volcanoes. 1:26:58 And the Mayan people, you know, they're very agricultural and they still do everything by hand. And so they carry, you know, wood on their heads, crops on their heads, these crazy, crazy loads. 1:27:09 And so when they saw my, my partner and I hiking up these volcanoes with our fat bikes and our gear on our back, they'd just smile and they'd give us a thumbs up, and they're like, "Oh, yeah," you know? Like- [laughs]... 1:27:19 it's totally normal for them. So I, I just have one more dad question. [laughs] So you're, you're, you're going down a big Cat four rapid and you flip over, and you have your two frames in front of you. 1:27:36 Uh- Mm-hmm... I'm assuming you're gonna be the front paddler. Mm-hmm. And you have those chain rings pointed right at you. Do you have anything to protect that? 1:27:45 Like, what happens when you go into the blender and you have- [laughs]... pointy objects strapped to the top of the inflatable boat? [laughs] Yeah. Totally. 1:27:55 Well, so you try to keep the pointy objects away from the inflatable boat as much as possible. Well, and your face too, hopefully. [laughs] Your face. Yeah, totally. No, I mean, I... 1:28:07 Like, we take the pedals off when we mount the frames. Mm-hmm. So that's not a big deal. Chain rings, we'll probably cover honestly with just like duct tape or something, whatever's easy. Yeah. 1:28:15 Um, a big part of that is just strapping everything down really, really well. 1:28:19 And I was actually answering a question about this that somebody asked me just the other day, like, "How do you strap your bike to the boat so that it's secure?" And, you know, I wrap the tires. I, yeah, like I strap... 1:28:30 I... My gosh, I have so many freaking straps. Oh, yeah. So essentially it's just strapping everything down really well, and then if we flip, which obviously the idea is not to flip- Right... 1:28:39 but if we flip, it's really, really hard to flip a boat back over with bicycles on it. I know. Like, it's, it's dang, it's dang near impossible. So you know, at that point, 1:28:50 y- the triage situation is just, you know, get, get the bi- get the, get the craft to shore, and right the boat there and, and get back in. Yeah. Eddy out and, and reassemble. Yeah. It's certainly not ideal. Gotcha. 1:29:03 Yeah. But it's, I mean, it's, it's pretty much impossible to flip over a boat with bikes on board when you're in the river, so g- getting to shore is key. This is where I could bring in more yak. 1:29:11 You could, you could take some epoxy and yak hair and mold it into a, uh, a, a guard for your chain ring for transport. Yeah. No, that's, that's a really good idea. Maybe that'll be my, my tent activity. 1:29:23 There's gonna be a lot of darkness, so maybe I'll braid a yak hair chain guard. Oh, yeah. [laughs] That's a- A chain ring koozie. That'd be nice. That'd be nice. Yeah. [laughs] Totally. Totally. 1:29:33 Maybe I'll just braid yak hair gloves and yak hair, you know, all the things. Good idea. Thank you for that. No problem. [laughs] Uh, yeah. And you know, yak milk on your cereal. Yak butter. Oh, yeah. It goes on and on. 1:29:47 Totally. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've, I've been trying to fatten both of us up for this trip because it's gonna be so cold, and it's, it's been a little bit of, a little bit hard without the yak butter, you know? 1:29:57 Eating normal sticks of butter, I mean, we do it, but it's kind of disgusting, so. Yeah. [laughs] We have actually, yeah. So you leave soon. Uh- Yeah... 1:30:08 will you come back and give us a full report of how things went and compare, contr- Yeah... compare and contrast yak dairy [laughs] with cow dairy products? [laughs] Yeah. 1:30:19 Whi- which stick of butter is more, is, uh, is more feasible to just eat straight up? Definitely. I will give you the full report of that. Yeah, we'll be back, uh, probably mid to late January. 1:30:30 We don't actually have return flights. Um, but we're, we're thinking the trip's gonna take us about two months, so. Yeah. I'm sure there will be plenty of stories, you know? 1:30:38 And, and that's the thing about these types of, of trips, like you can plan, you can prepare, and you can have a route, and then, you know, you just get there and see what happens essentially. 1:30:47 So really the, the most important thing is to be flexible and be creative and have a crap ton of patience and, uh, you know, just have a good sense of humor. 1:30:55 And so we're definitely looking forward to all the stories that are gonna come out of this trip and, uh, yeah, I will, I will keep you posted. Right on. 1:31:03 So, uh, we'll, uh, we, we're gonna have show notes with a ton of links that, uh- [laughs] And one of the things that I, that I hope that you can, uh, 1:31:12 give to us is a way for our listeners to follow the trip on the interwebs while you're out there and when you get back. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 1:31:22 So, um, we will definitely be posting real-time updates on social media.So my Instagram is @ElizaSampey, E-L-I-Z-A-S-A-M-P-E-Y. 1:31:34 Um, and my, the website, so we're gonna be posting a lot of updates and, and stories on a page on my website. So that is vitalmotionlife.com. 1:31:46 And I think the link at the top is, it says like current project or something like that. Cool. So that's where everything will be. 1:31:52 And you know, those of you listening in a car, don't, don't try and write that down 'cause we'll have it in the show notes. 1:31:57 [laughs] And you'll just be able to click on it and go right there and then bookmark it and then, you know, follow up with, uh- Yeah... to see the progress that Liz is making with her, uh, with her weaving of yak hair, 1:32:11 et cetera. [laughs] Totally. All right. Well, thanks for coming on the program and, uh, putting up with my foolishness and- [laughs] No, it was a good time. Thank you so much for having me. Cool. 1:32:23 And good luck and, uh- Thank you... we'll talk to you when you get back. Yeah. See you next time. All right. Take care. Bye. That's our show this week. Get out on the bike. [rock music] Enjoy this beautiful weather. 1:32:36 [rock music]
